00:00:00.634 --> 00:00:05.038
♪♪

00:00:09.076 --> 00:00:12.179
♪♪

00:00:12.212 --> 00:00:14.515
-The New York Shakespeare
Festival Mobile Theater

00:00:14.581 --> 00:00:16.850
will present
"A Midsummer Night's Dream"

00:00:16.917 --> 00:00:19.386
tonight in your neighborhood
at 8:00 p.m.

00:00:19.453 --> 00:00:21.021
Admission is free.

00:00:21.088 --> 00:00:23.690
Admission is free.
Tonight in your neighborhood.

00:00:23.757 --> 00:00:26.627
-I can't be any more
than eight or nine years old.

00:00:26.693 --> 00:00:28.495
I look outside the window,

00:00:28.562 --> 00:00:31.231
and something is going on
in our park.

00:00:31.265 --> 00:00:34.668
A couple of trailers show up,
they start building something.

00:00:34.735 --> 00:00:36.103
I'm eight years old.

00:00:36.170 --> 00:00:37.604
I don't know
what the hell it is.

00:00:37.671 --> 00:00:44.611
♪♪

00:00:44.678 --> 00:00:47.648
-He wanted Shakespeare to be
like a public library.

00:00:47.681 --> 00:00:51.218
Free, accessible.
You help people get it.

00:00:51.285 --> 00:00:52.553
-Why don't we charge admission?

00:00:52.619 --> 00:00:53.754
'Cause it's considered important

00:00:53.820 --> 00:00:56.924
to the life of the city,
the educational life.

00:00:56.990 --> 00:01:00.894
-Joe Papp was saying,
this is the way art should be.

00:01:00.961 --> 00:01:04.498
I mean, this was public theater
that was public -- it was free.

00:01:04.565 --> 00:01:06.967
-I felt even a quarter
would be too much.

00:01:07.034 --> 00:01:11.271
[ Renaissance music playing ]

00:01:11.338 --> 00:01:14.141
-I'm sitting there in these
bleachers, and all of a sudden

00:01:14.208 --> 00:01:18.512
there's these people
in the weirdest garments

00:01:18.579 --> 00:01:20.113
I'd ever seen in my life.

00:01:20.180 --> 00:01:23.283
My father's sitting next to me,
and we're just watching,

00:01:23.350 --> 00:01:24.852
you know, Shakespeare.

00:01:24.918 --> 00:01:27.154
-If thou say so!

00:01:27.221 --> 00:01:29.556
-We were taught by our teachers
in high school

00:01:29.623 --> 00:01:31.725
that Shakespeare was hard stuff.

00:01:31.792 --> 00:01:33.126
Cultural spinach.

00:01:33.193 --> 00:01:35.295
-Away, you ugly cow!

00:01:35.362 --> 00:01:36.730
-But there's Joe Papp doing it

00:01:36.797 --> 00:01:38.999
in the back of a truck
in my neighborhood.

00:01:39.032 --> 00:01:41.034
-Demetrius, I will
keep my word with thee!

00:01:41.101 --> 00:01:42.703
-And that adds something.

00:01:42.769 --> 00:01:44.838
That's a different perspective
on Shakespeare.

00:01:44.905 --> 00:01:46.440
That's beautiful.

00:01:46.507 --> 00:01:49.443
-He wanted the theater to be
as public as the library was.

00:01:49.510 --> 00:01:52.145
He said if the library
had not been public,

00:01:52.212 --> 00:01:54.181
he would never have discovered
Shakespeare.

00:01:55.616 --> 00:01:57.684
-The theater was his pen.

00:01:57.751 --> 00:02:01.321
It was the means by which
he wrote his commentary

00:02:01.388 --> 00:02:03.457
on what was going on
in the society.

00:02:03.524 --> 00:02:05.459
And we were the ink.

00:02:05.526 --> 00:02:12.332
♪♪

00:02:15.202 --> 00:02:18.472
-He felt that his theater
could lead an army...

00:02:18.539 --> 00:02:25.546
♪♪

00:02:25.746 --> 00:02:27.748
that he could fight
the good fight,

00:02:27.814 --> 00:02:31.518
that he could put his theater
on a tank and lead a division.

00:02:31.552 --> 00:02:33.587
-I must do something
that has some value.

00:02:33.620 --> 00:02:35.656
I can't just -- can't be
in show business.

00:02:35.689 --> 00:02:37.558
I just don't do shows.

00:02:37.591 --> 00:02:39.259
They must have meaning.

00:02:39.326 --> 00:02:43.030
-The way he swam between
the world of the avant garde

00:02:43.096 --> 00:02:46.099
and the commercial world
was completely admirable.

00:02:46.166 --> 00:02:53.173
♪♪

00:02:53.507 --> 00:03:00.514
♪♪

00:03:00.814 --> 00:03:07.821
♪♪

00:03:10.824 --> 00:03:14.494
-Oh, for a muse of fire
that would ascend

00:03:14.561 --> 00:03:17.798
the brightest heaven
of invention.

00:03:17.865 --> 00:03:20.267
A kingdom for a stage...

00:03:20.334 --> 00:03:22.236
princes to act...

00:03:22.302 --> 00:03:25.906
and monarchs to behold
the swelling scene.

00:03:26.940 --> 00:03:30.110
♪♪

00:03:30.177 --> 00:03:33.580
-I was born in Brooklyn.
Williamsburg part of Brooklyn.

00:03:33.647 --> 00:03:37.751
♪♪

00:03:37.818 --> 00:03:40.787
Always danger of some kind,
of being beaten up.

00:03:40.854 --> 00:03:41.955
I mean, there was stabbing.

00:03:42.022 --> 00:03:43.090
You'd always see someone
running down the block

00:03:43.156 --> 00:03:44.791
with a knife in his chest.

00:03:47.194 --> 00:03:49.196
And I learned one thing
at the time.

00:03:51.465 --> 00:03:52.566
If you hit first,

00:03:52.633 --> 00:03:54.801
you have a tremendous
psychological advantage.

00:03:54.868 --> 00:03:59.273
♪♪

00:03:59.339 --> 00:04:02.843
I was only 12,
and I picked that up.

00:04:07.447 --> 00:04:10.417
The time I was young,
which was in the '30s,

00:04:10.484 --> 00:04:14.388
there was a tremendous
amount of ferment.

00:04:14.454 --> 00:04:17.925
There were extraordinary
streams of thought

00:04:17.991 --> 00:04:20.761
that were coming --
coming around,

00:04:20.827 --> 00:04:22.162
particularly
in the poor neighborhood

00:04:22.229 --> 00:04:26.133
in which I was born,
because of the Depression.

00:04:26.200 --> 00:04:29.136
I mean, every second person
was a radical.

00:04:29.203 --> 00:04:31.471
In fact, the Young Communist
League used to have a storefront

00:04:31.538 --> 00:04:33.073
that said
"Young Communist League"

00:04:33.140 --> 00:04:34.174
right in the front.

00:04:36.510 --> 00:04:38.645
What they were saying
sounded very good.

00:04:38.712 --> 00:04:41.782
The elimination of poverty
and class distinctions.

00:04:43.650 --> 00:04:45.786
There was a group of thugs
like myself

00:04:45.853 --> 00:04:47.654
which would take furniture
that had been placed

00:04:47.721 --> 00:04:48.689
out on the sidewalk.

00:04:48.755 --> 00:04:50.324
People couldn't pay their rent.

00:04:51.925 --> 00:04:53.794
They'd empty out
the whole apartment

00:04:53.861 --> 00:04:55.395
and throw it onto the street,

00:04:55.462 --> 00:04:58.665
and you'd see a whole family
on the street.

00:04:58.732 --> 00:05:00.367
We'd wait until nightfall.

00:05:00.434 --> 00:05:01.869
We put it right back in again.

00:05:01.935 --> 00:05:03.537
The police would come and try
to stop us.

00:05:03.604 --> 00:05:04.805
We'd disappear.

00:05:06.707 --> 00:05:11.278
♪♪

00:05:11.345 --> 00:05:12.946
When I was young,

00:05:13.013 --> 00:05:14.982
I had no idea
what culture meant or --

00:05:15.048 --> 00:05:16.283
it was never even mentioned.

00:05:18.452 --> 00:05:21.054
But the tastes of young people
were very, very high.

00:05:21.121 --> 00:05:22.456
We knew what was good.

00:05:22.523 --> 00:05:25.058
You knew a good song.
You knew a good baseball player.

00:05:25.125 --> 00:05:27.027
I mean, boy,
they know a good dancer.

00:05:27.094 --> 00:05:33.967
♪♪

00:05:34.034 --> 00:05:36.570
I was in junior high school,

00:05:36.637 --> 00:05:40.274
and some teacher read a little
scene from "Julius Caesar."

00:05:42.676 --> 00:05:46.680
It was a speech about rousing
people to action and loyalty.

00:05:46.747 --> 00:05:48.415
I loved that speech.

00:05:48.482 --> 00:05:52.319
"You blocks, you stones,
you worse than senseless things.

00:05:52.386 --> 00:05:55.222
O you hard hearts,
you cruel men of Rome."

00:05:57.357 --> 00:05:59.893
I identified with the character.

00:05:59.960 --> 00:06:05.165
He was protesting some injustice
done to someone he cared for.

00:06:05.232 --> 00:06:06.767
I didn't understand
a lot of the things,

00:06:06.834 --> 00:06:11.438
but it sounded so good,
and I memorized it.

00:06:11.505 --> 00:06:16.343
♪♪

00:06:16.410 --> 00:06:19.913
I didn't admit to anybody
that I loved Shakespeare.

00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:21.381
On my block,

00:06:21.448 --> 00:06:23.951
if you told that to any of
those guys, they'd beat you up.

00:06:24.017 --> 00:06:30.891
♪♪

00:06:30.958 --> 00:06:33.093
-He has new cultural experiences

00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:37.130
and he becomes dedicated
to continuing the process

00:06:37.197 --> 00:06:38.999
for other people
who haven't been as lucky.

00:06:39.066 --> 00:06:42.402
He takes Shakespeare,
and he disseminates.

00:06:42.469 --> 00:06:49.476
♪♪

00:06:51.512 --> 00:06:56.049
-I started walking around,
and I stumbled on this place,

00:06:56.116 --> 00:06:57.985
the East River Park
Amphitheater.

00:06:58.051 --> 00:06:59.820
It's one of the roughest
neighborhoods in the city,

00:06:59.887 --> 00:07:02.022
and yet I felt very much
at home in that community.

00:07:02.089 --> 00:07:04.658
It's a neighborhood
where people are on the street.

00:07:06.860 --> 00:07:10.230
-I got a call one day,
and this voice came on and said,

00:07:10.297 --> 00:07:12.299
"Colleen Dewhurst?"
I said, "Yes."

00:07:12.366 --> 00:07:14.034
He said, "My name's Joe Papp.

00:07:14.101 --> 00:07:15.602
I'm going to start a company --

00:07:15.669 --> 00:07:19.606
Shakespeare for the people,
something that is free."

00:07:19.673 --> 00:07:21.875
And I mean, did I care?

00:07:21.942 --> 00:07:24.178
I just want to know,
does this man have a job for me?

00:07:24.244 --> 00:07:25.512
[ Chuckles ]

00:07:27.347 --> 00:07:30.450
-Saturday was the last day
for actors to audition

00:07:30.517 --> 00:07:32.252
for the New York
Shakespeare Festival

00:07:32.286 --> 00:07:34.288
for its inaugural season.

00:07:34.354 --> 00:07:37.724
I told my friends, "Tomorrow
I'm going to become an actor."

00:07:37.791 --> 00:07:40.460
And they said, "What?
You're Black.

00:07:40.527 --> 00:07:42.996
You don't know how tough
it's going to be.

00:07:43.063 --> 00:07:47.100
They'll have you
bearing torches."

00:07:47.134 --> 00:07:51.138
By 6:00 p.m. the next day,
Joseph Papp was saying to me,

00:07:51.205 --> 00:07:52.372
"You're new to me.

00:07:52.439 --> 00:07:53.941
How long have you
been an actor?"

00:07:54.007 --> 00:07:56.109
And I said, "12 hours,
but I have no intention

00:07:56.176 --> 00:07:57.444
of bearing any torches."

00:07:57.511 --> 00:07:59.146
And he broke up laughing.

00:07:59.213 --> 00:08:01.114
He says,
"No, you'll have words."

00:08:02.616 --> 00:08:05.352
-Joe wanted to fill the stage
with the same kind of people

00:08:05.419 --> 00:08:06.887
he was going to fill
the audience with --

00:08:06.954 --> 00:08:08.922
all the people of the city.

00:08:08.989 --> 00:08:12.226
-He thought, "If I'm --
if I can be in this,

00:08:12.292 --> 00:08:15.229
if I'm King Lear,
then everybody else can be."

00:08:15.295 --> 00:08:19.099
♪♪

00:08:19.166 --> 00:08:20.934
-The first show
that opened here,

00:08:21.001 --> 00:08:23.337
with no advertising, nothing,
just opened the doors,

00:08:23.403 --> 00:08:25.405
and the place was packed.

00:08:25.472 --> 00:08:28.275
-You couldn't stop the people
from coming in.

00:08:28.342 --> 00:08:30.744
-Every color...

00:08:30.811 --> 00:08:34.748
every possible group was there.

00:08:34.815 --> 00:08:37.451
-Old people, young people,
Jewish people,

00:08:37.518 --> 00:08:42.556
Hispanic people, Black people,
hundreds of people.

00:08:42.623 --> 00:08:45.792
-These people were dealing with
Shakespeare for the first time,

00:08:45.859 --> 00:08:47.895
probably theater
for the first time.

00:08:47.961 --> 00:08:50.898
-They laughed. They roared.
The people would yell.

00:08:50.964 --> 00:08:54.768
They'd go, "Look out!
Here she comes! Look out!"

00:08:54.835 --> 00:08:56.403
-"Don't do it, Romeo!
She ain't dead.

00:08:56.470 --> 00:08:58.505
Romeo, don't do it!
Oh, Christ!"

00:08:58.572 --> 00:08:59.806
-It was all very much alive,

00:08:59.873 --> 00:09:03.143
almost like
an Elizabethan audience.

00:09:03.210 --> 00:09:05.546
-"The Taming of the Shrew"
was on at the amphitheater

00:09:05.612 --> 00:09:07.014
opening night...

00:09:09.216 --> 00:09:11.251
...and there was a thunderstorm.

00:09:11.318 --> 00:09:14.621
[ Thunder booming ]

00:09:14.688 --> 00:09:16.690
The rain ends the first act,

00:09:16.757 --> 00:09:21.128
and Gelb writes this
glowing review of one act.

00:09:21.195 --> 00:09:22.896
♪♪

00:09:22.963 --> 00:09:27.367
-"It started to rain
at 9:45 last night.

00:09:27.434 --> 00:09:31.605
Petruchio had just finished
giving Kate a sound trouncing.

00:09:31.672 --> 00:09:34.842
The audience was
leaning raptly forward.

00:09:34.908 --> 00:09:39.780
It started raining,
and the audience did not leave.

00:09:39.847 --> 00:09:42.482
If ever an audience
was with the play,

00:09:42.549 --> 00:09:44.051
this one was.

00:09:44.117 --> 00:09:46.420
Exclamations of dismay,

00:09:46.486 --> 00:09:48.922
disappointed shouts resounded

00:09:48.989 --> 00:09:50.724
in a blending of dialects

00:09:50.791 --> 00:09:54.094
that could be heard
only on the Lower East Side."

00:09:55.963 --> 00:09:57.531
-He wrote this wonderful piece,

00:09:57.598 --> 00:10:01.435
and it became
kind of a turning point for me.

00:10:01.502 --> 00:10:06.874
-We were all very young
with no notion

00:10:06.940 --> 00:10:12.546
that we were forming
an institution.

00:10:12.613 --> 00:10:14.615
And we watched it growing.

00:10:14.681 --> 00:10:16.316
We watched it growing.

00:10:16.383 --> 00:10:18.719
♪♪

00:10:20.487 --> 00:10:24.992
♪♪

00:10:25.058 --> 00:10:27.861
-I didn't know that Joe
was an active communist

00:10:27.928 --> 00:10:31.265
when I fell in love with him
and I promised to marry him.

00:10:34.134 --> 00:10:37.204
-Joe's first professional job
in the theater

00:10:37.271 --> 00:10:41.675
was in a touring company
of "Death of a Salesman."

00:10:41.742 --> 00:10:44.378
One of the members of
the company was Peggy Bennion.

00:10:46.914 --> 00:10:50.184
-I had a dressing room
that was on the fifth floor,

00:10:50.250 --> 00:10:52.319
and he would run up
five flights of stairs

00:10:52.386 --> 00:10:56.056
in between his cues
to talk to me.

00:10:56.123 --> 00:11:00.794
One night, he missed a cue,
so he didn't do that anymore.

00:11:00.861 --> 00:11:03.964
Once he was talking about
going "shee-ing."

00:11:04.031 --> 00:11:05.432
I said, "Shee-ing?"

00:11:05.499 --> 00:11:07.067
And he said, "Yes,

00:11:07.134 --> 00:11:09.536
that's the English pronunciation
for skiing."

00:11:09.603 --> 00:11:12.573
He said, "My mother is English."

00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:15.609
-Joe affected
a rather elegant speech.

00:11:15.676 --> 00:11:17.678
One didn't know that he was
from Brooklyn. I didn't know.

00:11:17.744 --> 00:11:20.914
But maybe I just didn't
recognize a Brooklyn accent.

00:11:22.316 --> 00:11:23.984
-It was very painful
when I realized

00:11:24.051 --> 00:11:25.452
I was falling in love with him

00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:30.157
because he was married
and had a three-year-old son.

00:11:31.592 --> 00:11:35.929
-In fact, Michael
was Joe's second child.

00:11:37.130 --> 00:11:39.933
There had been a first marriage,

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:44.171
and there was one child
from that marriage.

00:11:44.238 --> 00:11:46.139
Joe and I were best friends,

00:11:46.206 --> 00:11:48.041
yet I didn't know about
that marriage

00:11:48.108 --> 00:11:50.077
until many, many years later.

00:11:52.546 --> 00:11:56.350
-Imagine my bringing home
to my family...

00:11:56.416 --> 00:11:59.119
somebody who had been
married twice before,

00:11:59.186 --> 00:12:03.190
who had two children,
and who was an active communist

00:12:03.257 --> 00:12:05.125
at the height of McCarthyism.

00:12:05.192 --> 00:12:07.127
My poor parents.

00:12:09.463 --> 00:12:11.665
-The New York Shakespeare
Festival Mobile Theater

00:12:11.732 --> 00:12:15.335
is here tonight at 8:00 p.m. at
Madison and Ralph Street.

00:12:15.402 --> 00:12:16.737
At Madison
and Ralph Street.

00:12:16.803 --> 00:12:18.172
Admission is free.

00:12:19.506 --> 00:12:22.209
-It was so characteristic of Joe

00:12:22.276 --> 00:12:25.612
to think that what was good
in the borough of Manhattan

00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:27.514
would be even better
were it to be extended

00:12:27.581 --> 00:12:29.516
to the outlying boroughs.

00:12:29.583 --> 00:12:31.919
And so Joe developed

00:12:31.985 --> 00:12:33.787
the Mobile Theater.

00:12:33.854 --> 00:12:36.957
-It was a portable
35-foot trailer truck

00:12:37.024 --> 00:12:40.194
in which we built a stage
which would unfold.

00:12:40.260 --> 00:12:42.329
I arranged to get
a sanitation truck

00:12:42.396 --> 00:12:44.131
to pull this thing
around the city.

00:12:45.432 --> 00:12:48.068
I found myself directing
all the plays on the mobile unit

00:12:48.135 --> 00:12:49.703
because I felt
this was the thing I wanted

00:12:49.770 --> 00:12:51.471
to be closely identified with

00:12:51.538 --> 00:12:54.575
to bring Shakespeare
to these communities.

00:12:54.608 --> 00:12:56.677
-What dreadful dole is here!

00:12:56.743 --> 00:12:59.346
Eyes, do you see?
How can it be?

00:12:59.413 --> 00:13:03.116
-I remember a couple of women
who were very distrustful,

00:13:03.183 --> 00:13:05.919
like, you know, "What are
these white people doing?"

00:13:05.953 --> 00:13:08.555
-Be certain, nothing truer,
'tis no jest.

00:13:08.622 --> 00:13:11.491
-But then the play gets going.

00:13:11.525 --> 00:13:15.762
-...and love Helena.
-O me!

00:13:15.829 --> 00:13:17.464
[ Laughter ]

00:13:17.531 --> 00:13:19.867
-There was some sense of
you're going to see

00:13:19.933 --> 00:13:21.735
something of your own life here,

00:13:21.802 --> 00:13:26.139
some reflection of you,
if you just give it a chance.

00:13:26.206 --> 00:13:31.812
[ Laughter,
man speaking indistinctly ]

00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:38.752
♪♪

00:13:40.454 --> 00:13:44.491
♪♪

00:13:44.558 --> 00:13:49.863
-The culminating venue of this
Mobile Theater was Central Park.

00:13:49.930 --> 00:13:52.432
We brought this truck in, came
in about 2:00 in the morning.

00:13:52.499 --> 00:13:53.600
I had no permit.

00:13:53.667 --> 00:13:55.302
There's a cop on a horse,
and he saw me go by,

00:13:55.369 --> 00:13:56.870
kind of looked at me
kind of strangely.

00:13:56.937 --> 00:13:58.605
But he must have assumed
nobody would come in

00:13:58.672 --> 00:14:01.808
with a huge 45-foot platform
trailer without a permit,

00:14:01.842 --> 00:14:03.610
and the truck began
to fall apart.

00:14:03.677 --> 00:14:05.112
I mean, it kept going over
to the side.

00:14:05.179 --> 00:14:06.446
You'd see it coming
around a corner,

00:14:06.513 --> 00:14:09.316
everybody'd go, "Oh!"
-[ Laughs ]

00:14:09.383 --> 00:14:11.652
-By the time the company
got to Central Park,

00:14:11.718 --> 00:14:13.453
the trucks would no longer roll.

00:14:13.520 --> 00:14:16.623
And so, by sheer inadvertence,

00:14:16.690 --> 00:14:20.093
the Shakespeare Festival
wound up on the shore

00:14:20.160 --> 00:14:22.863
of this little pond
in Central Park.

00:14:22.930 --> 00:14:27.801
♪♪

00:14:27.868 --> 00:14:31.305
-Here in this park,
Central Park, New York,

00:14:31.371 --> 00:14:34.741
Papp's Shakespeare performances
are absolutely free.

00:14:34.808 --> 00:14:37.611
The only way to get a seat
is to queue for it.

00:14:37.678 --> 00:14:40.614
The whole thing is paid for by
private and public donations --

00:14:40.681 --> 00:14:42.316
the sort of thing I dare say
that could only happen

00:14:42.382 --> 00:14:43.450
in America.

00:14:43.517 --> 00:14:46.620
♪♪

00:14:46.687 --> 00:14:48.689
-The idea that you're going to
put on plays of Shakespeare

00:14:48.755 --> 00:14:50.457
for ordinary people
who are supposed

00:14:50.524 --> 00:14:52.759
not to understand Shakespeare
and not charge admission,

00:14:52.826 --> 00:14:54.261
it was a kind of a radical act.

00:14:54.328 --> 00:14:57.030
I didn't think it was radical.

00:14:57.097 --> 00:14:58.532
-[ Knocking ]

00:14:58.599 --> 00:15:01.869
-Joe didn't realize that
his political ideals

00:15:01.935 --> 00:15:04.671
would come back to haunt him.

00:15:04.738 --> 00:15:06.874
The FBI used to come
and knock on our door

00:15:06.940 --> 00:15:09.309
trying to get Joe to inform.

00:15:09.343 --> 00:15:11.645
-We just thought we'd drop in
and have a little talk with you.

00:15:11.678 --> 00:15:13.247
We're from Red Squad.

00:15:13.313 --> 00:15:16.950
-He was asked to name names,
to ruin people's careers.

00:15:17.017 --> 00:15:19.419
It was a fact that
when you did that,

00:15:19.486 --> 00:15:21.255
people's lives were destroyed.

00:15:21.321 --> 00:15:22.756
-You're a red, ain't ya?

00:15:22.823 --> 00:15:24.625
-They said,
"You'd better cooperate

00:15:24.691 --> 00:15:25.626
if you know
what's good for you."

00:15:25.692 --> 00:15:27.694
I said,
"Are you threatening me?"

00:15:27.761 --> 00:15:28.729
He said, "I'm just telling you

00:15:28.795 --> 00:15:30.330
what you should
pay attention to."

00:15:30.397 --> 00:15:31.565
-'Cause the minute
you get out of line

00:15:31.632 --> 00:15:34.201
and start pulling
any of that radical stuff,

00:15:34.268 --> 00:15:36.970
you know what's going
to happen to you, don't you?

00:15:37.037 --> 00:15:41.909
-I was really scared because
we had just had Miranda

00:15:41.975 --> 00:15:44.745
and I didn't know how we were
going to make a living,

00:15:44.811 --> 00:15:47.181
you know,
if we were both blacklisted.

00:15:48.982 --> 00:15:51.418
♪♪

00:15:51.451 --> 00:15:55.422
-"I am asking you as a result
of your statement,

00:15:55.489 --> 00:15:58.759
if communism is not subversive
and is not a threat

00:15:58.825 --> 00:16:02.129
to our form of government
and the American way of life,

00:16:02.196 --> 00:16:05.365
then what harm does it do
to reveal the names of people

00:16:05.432 --> 00:16:08.168
who are active members
of the Communist Party

00:16:08.235 --> 00:16:10.137
if that is true?"

00:16:11.538 --> 00:16:13.974
Joseph Papp's answer --

00:16:14.041 --> 00:16:17.644
"Representative Moulder,
you know

00:16:17.711 --> 00:16:21.081
there is a blacklisting device
in the industry

00:16:21.148 --> 00:16:23.584
and the naming of people
this way

00:16:23.650 --> 00:16:28.388
does deny these people
the right to work,

00:16:28.422 --> 00:16:29.990
which I think

00:16:30.057 --> 00:16:32.626
is terribly unfair

00:16:32.693 --> 00:16:35.128
and un-American."

00:16:35.963 --> 00:16:40.934
-Joe was working at CBS
as a stage manager.

00:16:41.001 --> 00:16:44.271
-That same evening,
I walked into the CBS studio

00:16:44.338 --> 00:16:47.007
and they fired me because
I took the Fifth Amendment.

00:16:49.510 --> 00:16:52.179
-He came home and said,
"I'm going to fight it."

00:16:52.246 --> 00:16:54.815
And I said, "Joe, I mean,
how can you fight it?

00:16:54.882 --> 00:16:56.283
I mean, you can't fight CBS.

00:16:56.350 --> 00:16:59.353
You can't fight, you know,
the whole political situation."

00:16:59.419 --> 00:17:00.787
He says, "Yeah, I am."

00:17:00.854 --> 00:17:03.590
He says, "I'm going to get
the union to arbitrate it.

00:17:03.657 --> 00:17:05.926
I'm going to get my job back."

00:17:05.993 --> 00:17:08.195
And I thought, well, you know,
that's really impossible.

00:17:08.262 --> 00:17:10.764
I mean, that's like David
fighting Goliath.

00:17:12.199 --> 00:17:14.635
But Joe did fight giants,

00:17:14.701 --> 00:17:17.337
and he generally won.

00:17:17.404 --> 00:17:18.772
He certainly won that,

00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:23.010
because CBS a year later
gave him his job back.

00:17:23.076 --> 00:17:26.380
He didn't take it, but
they offered him his job back.

00:17:30.584 --> 00:17:32.386
-Once more unto the breach.

00:17:32.452 --> 00:17:35.055
Dear friends, once more!

00:17:35.122 --> 00:17:37.891
Peace, there's nothing
so becomes a man

00:17:37.958 --> 00:17:41.328
as modest stillness
and humility;

00:17:41.395 --> 00:17:44.731
but when the blast of war
blows in our ears,

00:17:44.798 --> 00:17:47.734
then imitate
the action of the tiger;

00:17:47.801 --> 00:17:50.838
stiffen the sinews,
summon up the blood,

00:17:50.904 --> 00:17:54.675
disguise fair nature
with hard-favor'd rage.

00:17:59.379 --> 00:18:02.049
-At the end of 1958,

00:18:02.115 --> 00:18:04.651
the Commissioner of Parks
of the city of New York

00:18:04.685 --> 00:18:07.054
attempted to impose upon
the Shakespeare Festival

00:18:07.120 --> 00:18:10.424
the requirement that admission
be charged to free Shakespeare.

00:18:10.490 --> 00:18:13.594
-He insisted that unless
we charge admission,

00:18:13.660 --> 00:18:15.128
we would have to leave.

00:18:15.996 --> 00:18:17.664
He's quite powerful, this man.

00:18:17.698 --> 00:18:20.834
-Robert Moses --
love him or hate him,

00:18:20.901 --> 00:18:23.470
the single most important
individual force

00:18:23.504 --> 00:18:25.739
in the history of the state
and city of New York.

00:18:25.806 --> 00:18:29.810
-Robert Moses built roads
and parks and bridges.

00:18:29.877 --> 00:18:32.045
He was a giant of a person,

00:18:32.112 --> 00:18:37.117
both physically and in terms
of the reach that he had.

00:18:37.184 --> 00:18:38.552
-For nearly half a century,

00:18:38.619 --> 00:18:41.522
this man has pushed people
around New York.

00:18:41.588 --> 00:18:45.058
Almost anybody who is anybody
has cursed him, fought him,

00:18:45.125 --> 00:18:48.061
knuckled under to him,
and admired him.

00:18:48.095 --> 00:18:50.998
-Joe refused to knuckle under
to Moses' demand.

00:18:51.064 --> 00:18:54.334
♪♪

00:18:54.401 --> 00:18:56.303
-I felt it was absolutely
essential that in order

00:18:56.370 --> 00:18:59.072
to attract an audience
that represented all groups,

00:18:59.139 --> 00:19:00.974
regardless of their ability
to pay,

00:19:01.041 --> 00:19:04.578
and even those that could pay,
to get them into the theater,

00:19:04.645 --> 00:19:09.816
to give them an experience with
a living play and Shakespeare,

00:19:09.883 --> 00:19:12.819
I felt even a quarter
would be too much.

00:19:12.886 --> 00:19:15.455
I feel there are
public libraries that are free.

00:19:15.522 --> 00:19:16.757
I feel a city
the size of New York

00:19:16.823 --> 00:19:18.992
should have a public theater.

00:19:19.059 --> 00:19:22.696
-I had the opinion that if
they were going to give theater

00:19:22.763 --> 00:19:24.198
in the parks,
that they ought to pay

00:19:24.264 --> 00:19:27.467
the actors the same
as all other actors are paid,

00:19:27.534 --> 00:19:30.070
not get some fellow
driving a taxicab

00:19:30.137 --> 00:19:33.807
and give him $18 a week
to play Hamlet.

00:19:33.874 --> 00:19:36.643
I thought then and still think
that's the only basis,

00:19:36.710 --> 00:19:38.946
and that's the way
it's going to end up.

00:19:39.012 --> 00:19:41.748
And when it ends up that way,
they'll have to charge

00:19:41.815 --> 00:19:44.518
because that's the only way
you can get money.

00:19:44.585 --> 00:19:47.154
-Most courage comes out of fear,
I'll tell you that.

00:19:47.221 --> 00:19:49.857
You're fighting to stay alive.

00:19:49.890 --> 00:19:51.758
-I never saw him back down
to anybody --

00:19:51.825 --> 00:19:56.430
anybody -- for size or shape
or power on any level.

00:19:56.496 --> 00:20:00.133
Physical, political.
He never, ever backed down.

00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.135
-He was kind of an art Rocky.

00:20:02.202 --> 00:20:03.470
You wanted to cheer
when he got up

00:20:03.537 --> 00:20:05.105
and went and screamed for money

00:20:05.172 --> 00:20:06.673
or when he fought Robert Moses.

00:20:06.740 --> 00:20:08.175
-There was something,
I think, too,

00:20:08.242 --> 00:20:10.277
that he loved
about the struggle,

00:20:10.344 --> 00:20:12.112
loved about the scrabbling.

00:20:13.380 --> 00:20:16.416
It didn't mean much
if it all came easy.

00:20:16.483 --> 00:20:20.687
It didn't mean much if
there wasn't a fight involved.

00:20:20.754 --> 00:20:23.557
-It was a true
David and Goliath fight,

00:20:23.624 --> 00:20:26.860
and Joe played the part of David
to the nines.

00:20:26.894 --> 00:20:32.633
♪♪

00:20:32.699 --> 00:20:38.639
♪♪

00:20:38.705 --> 00:20:42.442
-Moses was saying that the
people were trampling the grass.

00:20:42.509 --> 00:20:43.510
You know what he got?

00:20:43.577 --> 00:20:46.647
People kept
sending him grass seed.

00:20:46.713 --> 00:20:49.850
-Hundreds of New Yorkers
sent in grass seed,

00:20:49.917 --> 00:20:53.053
saying, "Here,
you can plant the grass."

00:20:54.321 --> 00:20:57.391
-I was nobody,
and he was a big shot.

00:20:58.125 --> 00:21:01.128
He probably found it intolerable
that there's this young punk

00:21:01.195 --> 00:21:06.366
coming along and arousing
so much feeling against him.

00:21:06.433 --> 00:21:07.768
-What about
the Shakespeare Festival?

00:21:07.835 --> 00:21:09.169
Will it go on free?

00:21:09.236 --> 00:21:11.171
-I don't have anything to say
about it at all.

00:21:11.238 --> 00:21:13.140
-Did you change your mind
on it, sir?

00:21:13.207 --> 00:21:14.975
-No.

00:21:15.042 --> 00:21:18.579
-It's still not free, then?
-I have nothing to say at all.

00:21:20.314 --> 00:21:22.749
-And then Moses pulled
all the stops

00:21:22.816 --> 00:21:25.919
to leak word to the press
that Joe had been a communist.

00:21:25.986 --> 00:21:27.688
Not only would he not
charge admission

00:21:27.754 --> 00:21:29.456
to see Shakespeare
in Central Park,

00:21:29.523 --> 00:21:31.325
but he was a communist to boot.

00:21:31.358 --> 00:21:38.365
♪♪

00:21:38.866 --> 00:21:40.501
-Finally, we took it to court.

00:21:40.567 --> 00:21:42.436
We lost in lower courts,

00:21:42.503 --> 00:21:43.504
but we won it

00:21:43.570 --> 00:21:45.372
in the Court of Appeals.

00:21:45.439 --> 00:21:47.608
We won it five to nothing.

00:21:47.674 --> 00:21:50.277
The chief justice said
that the parks commissioner

00:21:50.344 --> 00:21:53.514
was "arbitrary, capricious,
and unreasonable."

00:21:56.316 --> 00:22:02.489
♪♪

00:22:03.590 --> 00:22:05.125
When I went out there
that opening night,

00:22:05.192 --> 00:22:06.360
the place was packed.

00:22:06.426 --> 00:22:08.529
Every seat was full.

00:22:08.595 --> 00:22:11.331
I said, "Ladies and gentlemen."

00:22:11.398 --> 00:22:12.733
I couldn't get
any further than that.

00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:14.768
A roar. A roar!

00:22:14.835 --> 00:22:17.137
I mean, you never heard
such a sound in your life.

00:22:17.204 --> 00:22:18.472
I just stood there,

00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:19.640
let it wash over me.

00:22:19.706 --> 00:22:25.445
[ Cheers and applause ]

00:22:25.512 --> 00:22:27.881
They felt it was their triumph.

00:22:27.948 --> 00:22:29.750
The people won.

00:22:35.189 --> 00:22:39.493
♪♪

00:22:39.560 --> 00:22:40.994
-Well, Mr. Papp, next year,

00:22:41.061 --> 00:22:43.263
you'll be in your new home
at 81st Street.

00:22:43.330 --> 00:22:44.531
-Right.
It'll be an amphitheater

00:22:44.598 --> 00:22:47.601
seating 2,500 people
and very comfortable seats.

00:22:47.668 --> 00:22:54.675
♪♪

00:22:55.075 --> 00:22:57.144
-The Delacorte Theater
opened barely in time

00:22:57.211 --> 00:23:00.948
for that first performance
of "The Merchant of Venice."

00:23:01.014 --> 00:23:02.549
-Joe said, "You know, I cast

00:23:02.616 --> 00:23:05.819
this unknown actor
in this part."

00:23:05.886 --> 00:23:07.588
-He's one of the actors
that came in off the street,

00:23:07.654 --> 00:23:08.956
so to speak.

00:23:09.022 --> 00:23:10.824
His voice was very gravelly.

00:23:10.891 --> 00:23:12.626
I wanted a better voice.

00:23:12.693 --> 00:23:15.696
I finally decided,
"Well, let's cast him."

00:23:17.164 --> 00:23:20.434
-If you prick us,
do we not bleed?

00:23:22.135 --> 00:23:24.771
If you tickle us,
do we not laugh?

00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:28.475
If you poison us...

00:23:28.542 --> 00:23:30.677
do we not die?

00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:33.747
And...

00:23:33.814 --> 00:23:36.650
if you wrong us,

00:23:36.717 --> 00:23:39.853
shall we not revenge?

00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:40.954
-Joe must have thought,

00:23:41.021 --> 00:23:42.990
"We haven't done
'Merchant of Venice' ever,

00:23:43.056 --> 00:23:45.359
and we should do a play
we haven't done before,

00:23:45.425 --> 00:23:46.527
and we've got George Scott.

00:23:46.593 --> 00:23:48.128
'Merchant of Venice,'
and I'll direct it.

00:23:48.195 --> 00:23:49.830
What could be better?"

00:23:49.897 --> 00:23:51.865
-But then the shit
hit the fan.

00:23:51.932 --> 00:23:55.802
♪♪

00:23:55.869 --> 00:23:57.037
-But the New York
Board of Rabbis

00:23:57.104 --> 00:23:58.138
believed that
"The Merchant of Venice"

00:23:58.205 --> 00:24:00.140
was an anti-Semitic play,

00:24:00.207 --> 00:24:05.412
that presenting a Jew such as
Shylock debases Jews.

00:24:05.479 --> 00:24:06.513
-I never thought of the play

00:24:06.547 --> 00:24:07.548
as being anti-Semitic.

00:24:07.581 --> 00:24:09.082
It never entered my mind.

00:24:09.149 --> 00:24:11.418
I just considered this an
important play of Shakespeare's

00:24:11.485 --> 00:24:13.053
and had a marvelous actor
to play this role,

00:24:13.120 --> 00:24:14.955
which I thought was
one of the great acting roles.

00:24:15.022 --> 00:24:17.057
And I was totally unaware

00:24:17.124 --> 00:24:19.560
that there'd even be
an objection to this play.

00:24:19.626 --> 00:24:24.364
-This was just Joe's instinctual
drive towards trouble.

00:24:24.431 --> 00:24:29.136
Joe searched out trouble the way
divining rods search out water.

00:24:30.304 --> 00:24:32.840
-Joe was getting
so much criticism

00:24:32.906 --> 00:24:35.008
that he finally said something

00:24:35.075 --> 00:24:38.345
that absolutely changed
everything.

00:24:38.412 --> 00:24:43.250
♪♪

00:24:43.317 --> 00:24:45.219
-I am a Jew.

00:24:46.453 --> 00:24:48.722
Hath not a Jew eyes?

00:24:48.789 --> 00:24:51.158
Hath not a Jew hands,

00:24:51.225 --> 00:24:54.595
organs, dimensions,
senses, affections?

00:24:54.661 --> 00:24:58.298
-To our amazement, Joe said,
"I myself am a Jew."

00:24:58.365 --> 00:25:02.970
-Fed with the same food,
hurt with the same weapons.

00:25:03.036 --> 00:25:05.072
-And he said,
"I would do nothing

00:25:05.138 --> 00:25:07.774
that, in my opinion,
would harm my people."

00:25:09.943 --> 00:25:15.449
You must understand,
nobody knew that Joe was Jewish.

00:25:15.516 --> 00:25:19.219
We were best friends and very,
very thick and very close,

00:25:19.286 --> 00:25:20.654
and I didn't know.

00:25:22.322 --> 00:25:26.527
Joe had escaped his past
for nearly 30 years.

00:25:28.695 --> 00:25:30.197
"The Merchant of Venice"
did go on,

00:25:30.264 --> 00:25:35.536
and the humanity of George
as Shylock was profound.

00:25:35.602 --> 00:25:38.105
But the most important
consequence of all this

00:25:38.172 --> 00:25:41.575
was that Joe finally admitted
that he was Jewish.

00:25:43.710 --> 00:25:50.684
♪♪

00:25:50.751 --> 00:25:57.758
♪♪

00:25:57.824 --> 00:26:01.762
-Years after we got married,
he was going out to Brooklyn

00:26:01.828 --> 00:26:04.364
and he left me
a telephone number.

00:26:04.431 --> 00:26:06.900
I had to get in touch with him,

00:26:06.967 --> 00:26:11.805
and a woman answered
with very broken English.

00:26:11.872 --> 00:26:15.108
I suddenly realized
that this was his mother.

00:26:17.778 --> 00:26:19.913
He always said that
his mother was English

00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:22.716
and that his father was Polish.

00:26:24.685 --> 00:26:28.288
And then he told me
the whole story.

00:26:28.355 --> 00:26:31.325
He started life as
Joseph Papirofsky.

00:26:33.460 --> 00:26:36.363
-My father and mother both
had come from Eastern Europe --

00:26:36.430 --> 00:26:40.200
my father from Poland,
my mother from Lithuania.

00:26:40.267 --> 00:26:44.304
And she was working
at a sweatshop here in New York.

00:26:44.338 --> 00:26:47.708
She was a...
a garment worker.

00:26:49.977 --> 00:26:53.013
It's hard for me now
to recapture my feelings.

00:26:53.080 --> 00:26:56.083
It would be so...painful.

00:26:56.149 --> 00:26:58.352
What I've experienced
more than anything else,

00:26:58.418 --> 00:27:03.156
more than poverty,
is anti-Semitism.

00:27:03.223 --> 00:27:07.628
It is skin-deep scratches,
and a lot of it will come out.

00:27:09.796 --> 00:27:12.633
My father would pray
every morning and every night.

00:27:12.699 --> 00:27:16.970
His Jewishness was as natural
to him as eating and drinking.

00:27:17.037 --> 00:27:20.774
There was a small storefront
shul on the block, very poor,

00:27:20.841 --> 00:27:22.142
and I would go to that.

00:27:22.209 --> 00:27:24.645
My father would take me
with him early in the morning.

00:27:24.711 --> 00:27:25.846
My father lost his job

00:27:25.913 --> 00:27:28.048
just around the beginning
of the Depression.

00:27:28.115 --> 00:27:29.783
He started looking
for work every day.

00:27:29.850 --> 00:27:31.919
Couldn't find anything.

00:27:31.985 --> 00:27:34.922
They looked to me
to do something.

00:27:34.988 --> 00:27:37.257
I'd do all sorts of odd jobs.

00:27:37.324 --> 00:27:41.428
Sold peanuts in front of
Botanic Garden.

00:27:41.495 --> 00:27:43.297
I shined shoes for a while.

00:27:45.399 --> 00:27:48.335
In fact, my father took over
my shoe-shining job

00:27:48.402 --> 00:27:50.470
after I left.

00:27:53.941 --> 00:27:57.945
-Joe saw his father humiliated
because he couldn't get a job

00:27:58.011 --> 00:28:00.747
and people would treat him
very badly.

00:28:00.814 --> 00:28:03.050
You look to your parents
to protect you.

00:28:03.116 --> 00:28:07.087
But Joe, his parents
couldn't protect him.

00:28:07.154 --> 00:28:09.957
When he was 14
and trying to get a job,

00:28:10.023 --> 00:28:13.927
he wasn't able to get a job
if he said he was Jewish.

00:28:13.994 --> 00:28:17.097
So that's when he first began
denying he was Jewish.

00:28:17.164 --> 00:28:20.167
And if you tell one lie,
it leads to another,

00:28:20.234 --> 00:28:22.102
and pretty soon
you have to cover up,

00:28:22.169 --> 00:28:25.239
you know,
your identity to everyone.

00:28:26.773 --> 00:28:30.544
-I think he was
a Gatsby-like American.

00:28:30.611 --> 00:28:33.447
You know, an American who
simply bursts onto the scene,

00:28:33.514 --> 00:28:36.984
has no past,
man in a hurry, going somewhere.

00:28:38.252 --> 00:28:40.654
-The whole idea of being part
of a minority

00:28:40.721 --> 00:28:41.855
and not being able
to speak a language

00:28:41.922 --> 00:28:43.590
and your parents
don't speak English,

00:28:43.657 --> 00:28:47.761
I was embarrassed and ashamed
to invite anybody to my house.

00:28:47.828 --> 00:28:50.230
I remember being invited
to somebody's house,

00:28:50.297 --> 00:28:51.999
and the mother spoke English.

00:28:52.065 --> 00:28:53.400
She said, "Come in.
How are you?"

00:28:53.467 --> 00:28:54.501
That sort of thing.

00:28:54.568 --> 00:28:57.437
I knew my mother
couldn't say that.

00:28:57.504 --> 00:28:59.673
-Because his childhood
started with Yiddish,

00:28:59.740 --> 00:29:02.676
I think Shakespeare was a way
into the American language,

00:29:02.743 --> 00:29:04.144
into the English language.

00:29:04.211 --> 00:29:08.582
-Initially, the effort is to
feel that you're part of America

00:29:08.649 --> 00:29:11.285
and you think that you have to
do that by separating yourself

00:29:11.351 --> 00:29:13.086
from your ethnic group.

00:29:13.153 --> 00:29:15.522
And then when some measure

00:29:15.589 --> 00:29:18.258
of accomplishment
and acceptance comes,

00:29:18.325 --> 00:29:22.996
you begin to understand where
your authenticity comes from.

00:29:23.063 --> 00:29:24.264
What voices do you hear?

00:29:24.331 --> 00:29:25.332
What music?

00:29:25.365 --> 00:29:26.667
What rhythms do you hear?

00:29:26.733 --> 00:29:28.735
That I know was true for Joe.

00:29:28.802 --> 00:29:33.874
♪♪

00:29:36.577 --> 00:29:39.913
-What a piece of work is a man,

00:29:39.980 --> 00:29:42.049
how noble in reason,

00:29:42.115 --> 00:29:45.853
how infinite in faculties,
in form and moving

00:29:45.919 --> 00:29:48.755
how express and admirable,

00:29:48.822 --> 00:29:50.390
in action how like an angel,

00:29:50.457 --> 00:29:53.193
in apprehension how like a god,

00:29:53.260 --> 00:29:57.731
the beauty of the world,
the paragon of animals.

00:29:57.798 --> 00:30:01.168
And yet to me,

00:30:01.235 --> 00:30:04.371
what is this
quintessence of dust?

00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:08.175
Man delights not me.

00:30:11.979 --> 00:30:16.416
-He was more interested in
possibility than in achievement.

00:30:16.483 --> 00:30:19.019
He was always interested
in where things were going,

00:30:19.086 --> 00:30:22.756
not where they had been.

00:30:22.823 --> 00:30:25.893
When Joe's juices really flowed

00:30:25.959 --> 00:30:29.196
were when something was
half finished, open.

00:30:31.164 --> 00:30:33.901
The minute it was clear
where it was going

00:30:33.967 --> 00:30:37.771
and what it was going to be,
he became bored.

00:30:40.374 --> 00:30:43.477
♪♪

00:30:43.544 --> 00:30:46.880
-The desire to have
a year-round theater

00:30:46.947 --> 00:30:48.949
was a growing impulse.

00:30:49.016 --> 00:30:52.986
And so by about 1965,
we started looking for a place

00:30:53.053 --> 00:30:55.322
where we might make
a permanent theater.

00:30:58.458 --> 00:31:02.162
-When I came into that building,
it was in ruins.

00:31:02.229 --> 00:31:03.897
It was falling apart.

00:31:06.567 --> 00:31:08.936
And I saw these little rooms
where they housed these people

00:31:09.002 --> 00:31:11.572
and these little cradles
for children.

00:31:11.638 --> 00:31:15.442
-Cots and mattresses,
baby shoes.

00:31:15.509 --> 00:31:18.812
-And these two kitchens they had
there, kosher kitchens.

00:31:18.879 --> 00:31:22.382
-It was just -- It was like
it'd been arrested in time.

00:31:22.449 --> 00:31:27.054
-And then endless
files of names.

00:31:27.120 --> 00:31:29.423
-For thousands and thousands
of Jewish immigrants,

00:31:29.489 --> 00:31:33.694
this was their first home,
including my Grandpa Max.

00:31:33.727 --> 00:31:37.331
You can still see the letters
on the side of the building.

00:31:37.397 --> 00:31:40.868
HIAS -- The Hebrew
Immigrant Aid Society.

00:31:40.934 --> 00:31:42.569
-The first free public library
in New York,

00:31:42.636 --> 00:31:44.605
but it had been converted into

00:31:44.671 --> 00:31:48.509
a place for homeless Jews
after World War II.

00:31:48.575 --> 00:31:51.945
-I felt in the walls
there was a story

00:31:52.012 --> 00:31:55.015
and our theater would
reflect it some way.

00:31:55.082 --> 00:31:57.718
-He talked about
what this building had been

00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:01.922
and what that meant to him.

00:32:01.989 --> 00:32:05.425
And he was going to do
the things that he felt

00:32:05.492 --> 00:32:08.996
were important in our lives
in this building.

00:32:10.163 --> 00:32:12.699
-This was a huge undertaking.

00:32:12.766 --> 00:32:15.636
He wanted to bring in
new American playwrights

00:32:15.702 --> 00:32:17.037
and give them a home.

00:32:19.540 --> 00:32:20.874
[ Cymbal clangs ]

00:32:20.941 --> 00:32:26.013
♪♪

00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:29.616
The first play was
just pure serendipity.

00:32:29.683 --> 00:32:33.253
-♪ Doors locked ♪

00:32:33.320 --> 00:32:35.389
-He met one of the authors
on a train.

00:32:35.455 --> 00:32:36.957
The next day,
he walks in the office

00:32:37.024 --> 00:32:39.226
saying this strange title.

00:32:39.293 --> 00:32:41.895
-♪ Blinds pulled ♪

00:32:41.962 --> 00:32:45.299
-He had five or six
scruffy pages of a scene

00:32:45.365 --> 00:32:48.035
that dealt with young people
having to face the problem

00:32:48.101 --> 00:32:50.838
of war and loneliness.

00:32:50.904 --> 00:32:52.306
-During the Vietnam War,

00:32:52.372 --> 00:32:54.341
the hippies were all around
the theater at that time.

00:32:54.408 --> 00:32:56.376
I had a tremendous feeling
of responsibility

00:32:56.443 --> 00:32:58.812
for young people,
to protect them.

00:33:00.747 --> 00:33:02.115
-The war was raging,

00:33:02.182 --> 00:33:04.551
and there were
huge protests in the streets,

00:33:04.618 --> 00:33:06.520
and we wanted to bring that
to the stage

00:33:06.587 --> 00:33:09.489
so people
would really understand,

00:33:09.556 --> 00:33:11.592
really feel what
we were feeling.

00:33:11.658 --> 00:33:14.862
♪♪

00:33:14.928 --> 00:33:17.564
-I came down to audition for it,
and I came home

00:33:17.631 --> 00:33:19.833
and put it on the table,
and my wife said,

00:33:19.900 --> 00:33:22.002
"What is that thing?"
I said, "That is going to be

00:33:22.069 --> 00:33:25.272
the biggest hit in the history
of the American theater."

00:33:25.339 --> 00:33:30.878
-♪ When the moon
is in the 7th house ♪

00:33:30.944 --> 00:33:35.682
♪ And Jupiter aligns with Mars ♪

00:33:35.749 --> 00:33:40.287
♪ Then peace
will guide the planets ♪

00:33:40.354 --> 00:33:43.457
♪ And love
will steer the stars ♪

00:33:43.524 --> 00:33:47.995
-♪ This is the dawning of
the Age of Aquarius ♪

00:33:48.061 --> 00:33:49.796
♪ The Age of Aquarius ♪

00:33:49.863 --> 00:33:51.932
-There was a lot of chaos.

00:33:51.999 --> 00:33:55.369
-♪ Let it fly in the breeze
and get caught in the trees ♪

00:33:55.435 --> 00:33:59.139
♪ Give a home to the fleas
in my hair ♪

00:33:59.206 --> 00:34:01.909
-We were trying to go
for a new form,

00:34:01.975 --> 00:34:03.544
an experimental form.

00:34:03.610 --> 00:34:08.615
-♪ We starve, look at one
another short of breath ♪

00:34:08.682 --> 00:34:14.922
-It had a freedom to it
that no musical had ever dared.

00:34:14.988 --> 00:34:21.495
-This was really so against
the traditional view of things.

00:34:21.562 --> 00:34:25.299
It pulled a grenade
and lobbed it in.

00:34:25.365 --> 00:34:28.702
-♪ Let the sun shine ♪

00:34:28.769 --> 00:34:32.472
♪ Let the sun shine in ♪

00:34:32.539 --> 00:34:35.209
-It enraged so many people,

00:34:35.275 --> 00:34:38.679
both critics and public,
who said, "We didn't come

00:34:38.745 --> 00:34:40.480
to the New York
Shakespeare Festival

00:34:40.547 --> 00:34:44.885
to see and hear travesties
such as 'Hair.'"

00:34:44.952 --> 00:34:48.188
And everybody gave up on "Hair"
except one person,

00:34:48.255 --> 00:34:51.458
and he resuscitated "Hair"
on Broadway.

00:34:51.525 --> 00:34:54.795
-Joe hated Broadway because
it was about money

00:34:54.862 --> 00:34:56.396
and not about work.

00:34:56.463 --> 00:34:58.232
-Joe said,
"Broadway is shit."

00:34:58.298 --> 00:35:00.033
-You have to understand,

00:35:00.100 --> 00:35:02.936
Joe was growing
as he did things.

00:35:03.003 --> 00:35:05.105
He didn't know everything
at the outset.

00:35:05.172 --> 00:35:09.009
-♪ Let the sun shine ♪

00:35:09.076 --> 00:35:12.346
♪ Let the sun shine in ♪

00:35:12.412 --> 00:35:15.415
♪♪

00:35:15.482 --> 00:35:20.754
-♪ Ripped open
by metal explosion ♪

00:35:20.821 --> 00:35:24.424
-This was a time when
the country was coming asunder

00:35:24.491 --> 00:35:29.429
and the spirit of our country
was at risk of being destroyed.

00:35:29.496 --> 00:35:31.064
-People were dying.

00:35:31.131 --> 00:35:33.667
We were in a struggle
to save our lives

00:35:33.734 --> 00:35:36.170
and the lives of the communities
that we came from.

00:35:36.203 --> 00:35:39.306
And our work had
to reflect that urgency.

00:35:39.373 --> 00:35:42.409
♪♪

00:35:42.476 --> 00:35:44.711
-The theater is alive
when it's attached

00:35:44.778 --> 00:35:47.147
to what's going on
outside of it.

00:35:47.214 --> 00:35:48.682
So it's always the interaction
of these two

00:35:48.749 --> 00:35:50.417
that are of interest to me.

00:35:50.484 --> 00:35:54.621
-♪ Mail-order rifles ♪

00:35:54.688 --> 00:35:56.823
♪ Shoot the muscles ♪

00:35:56.890 --> 00:35:59.459
-There was an overt interest

00:35:59.526 --> 00:36:02.429
in political issues,

00:36:02.496 --> 00:36:04.031
but not in polemic.

00:36:04.097 --> 00:36:08.302
-♪ 256 Viet Cong captured ♪

00:36:08.335 --> 00:36:11.438
-I ain't been
out of the house...

00:36:11.505 --> 00:36:13.774
in more than three months.

00:36:16.643 --> 00:36:20.380
Not because I've been that busy.

00:36:20.447 --> 00:36:22.182
I've just been scared.

00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:26.553
[ Scoffs ]

00:36:28.355 --> 00:36:31.291
But don't let me give you
the impression

00:36:31.358 --> 00:36:34.561
that I'm still
hung up on all that --

00:36:34.628 --> 00:36:36.230
what do you call it?

00:36:36.296 --> 00:36:39.800
[ Scoffs ] Negro self-pity

00:36:39.867 --> 00:36:44.438
or even that old "You owe me,
whitey" party line.

00:36:44.505 --> 00:36:46.206
'Cause I ain't.

00:36:46.273 --> 00:36:49.309
-Joe had this tremendous
sympathy for the underdog.

00:36:50.944 --> 00:36:52.913
And this is why, you know,
dogs like me

00:36:52.980 --> 00:36:57.251
and all other underdogs kind of,
you know, went to him

00:36:57.317 --> 00:36:59.052
because he was on my side.

00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:00.420
He was on our side.

00:37:00.487 --> 00:37:01.688
-The first plays I did was Joe

00:37:01.755 --> 00:37:06.226
were written out of my own
experience in Vietnam.

00:37:06.293 --> 00:37:11.932
-♪ Ripped open
by metal explosion ♪

00:37:11.999 --> 00:37:15.202
♪ Caught in barbed wire ♪

00:37:15.269 --> 00:37:17.838
♪ Fireball, bullet shock ♪

00:37:17.905 --> 00:37:21.008
-Often my plays were about
people who are marginalized.

00:37:21.074 --> 00:37:24.344
And I think Joe actually felt
that way himself

00:37:24.411 --> 00:37:27.481
and probably did all his life
as a kind of outsider.

00:37:27.548 --> 00:37:30.751
He was always looking
to challenge the status quo,

00:37:30.817 --> 00:37:33.520
and he didn't really want
to be taken in.

00:37:33.587 --> 00:37:35.322
He wanted to kind of
just challenge it.

00:37:35.389 --> 00:37:38.592
-[ Knocking ]

00:37:38.659 --> 00:37:42.129
-I understood the feelings
that went into these plays.

00:37:42.196 --> 00:37:44.831
They aroused my own feelings
about injustice,

00:37:44.898 --> 00:37:48.936
the terror of life,
the terror of war.

00:37:49.002 --> 00:37:50.304
David brought in a turn

00:37:50.370 --> 00:37:52.706
and a shadow of something
very deep in him,

00:37:52.773 --> 00:37:54.675
almost primitive, I would say.

00:37:54.741 --> 00:37:57.511
And I became so connected
with his plays that I felt

00:37:57.578 --> 00:38:00.247
that I would protect them
from anything.

00:38:00.314 --> 00:38:03.150
-Earlier, I couldn't get anyone
to do the plays,

00:38:03.217 --> 00:38:05.085
and to go suddenly now
to this step

00:38:05.152 --> 00:38:07.387
where there was a guy saying,
you know,

00:38:07.454 --> 00:38:10.757
"Anything you write, I'll do,"
it was miraculous.

00:38:10.824 --> 00:38:15.529
-I had developed what has now
become a famous cult opera

00:38:15.596 --> 00:38:16.930
called "The Knife."

00:38:16.997 --> 00:38:19.066
Joe said, "You've got to come
upstairs,

00:38:19.132 --> 00:38:20.734
and I've got to read you
the review

00:38:20.801 --> 00:38:22.636
in The New York Times."

00:38:22.703 --> 00:38:25.672
And it was about
the most contemptuous,

00:38:25.739 --> 00:38:30.377
the most dismissive,
and the most foolish review

00:38:30.444 --> 00:38:33.881
I've just about ever read
by Frank Rich.

00:38:33.947 --> 00:38:39.186
And at the end of it, Joe put it
to one side, and he said,

00:38:39.253 --> 00:38:42.656
"That is not what I call
a good review,"

00:38:42.723 --> 00:38:46.026
and everybody
in the room laughed.

00:38:46.093 --> 00:38:49.429
And then he turned to me
and said,

00:38:49.496 --> 00:38:52.232
"What do you want to do
in my theater next?"

00:38:55.836 --> 00:38:59.273
I just loved the man for
the rest of my life after that.

00:38:59.339 --> 00:39:02.009
He'd just lost
a million dollars,

00:39:02.075 --> 00:39:04.378
and it wasn't a vague gesture.

00:39:04.444 --> 00:39:07.181
The next day we were discussing
what we would do next.

00:39:07.247 --> 00:39:09.550
[ Woman speaking indistinctly ]

00:39:09.616 --> 00:39:13.520
-He would wander amongst his
actors the night before a show

00:39:13.587 --> 00:39:15.956
like Hal at Agincourt.

00:39:16.023 --> 00:39:19.626
Everybody from the lowest peon
to the star

00:39:19.693 --> 00:39:22.930
felt his charisma,
his power, his generosity --

00:39:22.996 --> 00:39:25.766
his sincere, genuine hope
that all would go well,

00:39:25.832 --> 00:39:27.267
his love for you.

00:39:27.334 --> 00:39:29.002
And it strengthened you.

00:39:29.069 --> 00:39:30.470
It made you feel good,

00:39:30.537 --> 00:39:35.209
and it made you
want to do good for him.

00:39:35.275 --> 00:39:38.412
It pulled you out of yourself
and said,

00:39:38.478 --> 00:39:41.682
"Oh, my God, please don't
let me fail this wonderful man."

00:39:41.748 --> 00:39:44.985
♪♪

00:39:45.052 --> 00:39:47.721
-This theater was the Mecca
for playwrights.

00:39:47.788 --> 00:39:50.891
Joe really gave them a voice

00:39:50.958 --> 00:39:53.026
and offered them a freedom

00:39:53.093 --> 00:39:55.362
that did not exist
anywhere else.

00:39:55.429 --> 00:39:57.264
♪♪

00:39:57.331 --> 00:39:59.099
-I was in the army, in Okinawa,

00:39:59.166 --> 00:40:00.567
when I found out that my agent

00:40:00.634 --> 00:40:03.337
had sold a script
to a man named Joe Papp,

00:40:03.403 --> 00:40:05.439
-I wrote to
the commanding general.

00:40:05.506 --> 00:40:06.807
I said, "This is
a marvelous playwright."

00:40:06.874 --> 00:40:09.610
And I said, "I need him here
to do that play."

00:40:09.643 --> 00:40:12.412
-He got me out of the army
about 77 days early,

00:40:12.479 --> 00:40:14.615
and it doesn't sound like much
unless you're in the army

00:40:14.681 --> 00:40:17.484
on Okinawa,
and then it's an eternity.

00:40:17.551 --> 00:40:20.587
Suddenly I'm in
this mogul's office,

00:40:20.654 --> 00:40:22.289
and there's this man

00:40:22.356 --> 00:40:24.825
with this giant cigar
that he's offering me

00:40:24.892 --> 00:40:27.227
and saying,
"I really love your play,

00:40:27.294 --> 00:40:28.662
a great play,
a great piece of work.

00:40:28.729 --> 00:40:31.365
We've got a great cast.
Here, have a cigar."

00:40:31.431 --> 00:40:34.868
♪♪

00:40:34.935 --> 00:40:38.872
-When I was here, there was
a whole bunch of guys

00:40:38.939 --> 00:40:41.575
that were his playwrights.

00:40:43.644 --> 00:40:47.381
They all seemed to smoke cigars
with him, you know?

00:40:47.447 --> 00:40:48.782
And I called them The Davids,

00:40:48.849 --> 00:40:50.083
because I -- I don't know.

00:40:50.150 --> 00:40:52.986
They all seemed to have the --
David Rabe, David Mamet.

00:40:53.053 --> 00:40:58.525
And I always felt kind of
in the minority.

00:40:58.592 --> 00:41:01.295
And these Davids, you know,
they would fight with him.

00:41:01.361 --> 00:41:03.430
They'd walk away.
They'd never speak to him again.

00:41:03.497 --> 00:41:04.831
And they'd come back
in two weeks.

00:41:04.898 --> 00:41:07.067
They'd make up, they'd be doing
a new play together.

00:41:07.134 --> 00:41:08.902
They'd be opening
Lincoln Center together,

00:41:08.969 --> 00:41:10.370
then they'd be burning it down.

00:41:10.437 --> 00:41:13.173
It was so dramatic,
it was so male,

00:41:13.240 --> 00:41:16.677
it was so chemical, you know,
that you could --

00:41:16.743 --> 00:41:20.280
you could feel it in the air
when there was a David around.

00:41:20.314 --> 00:41:22.115
-When it's that personal,

00:41:22.182 --> 00:41:24.051
intense thing that he had
about his theater

00:41:24.117 --> 00:41:25.652
and I had about my work,

00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:28.655
and when they fit together,
of course, it was glorious

00:41:28.722 --> 00:41:32.426
and I imagined I'd be doing
plays with him forever.

00:41:32.459 --> 00:41:37.865
-I felt very much as if I were
a member of a group of ronin

00:41:37.931 --> 00:41:42.069
whose mission was to,
as grandiose and pretentious

00:41:42.135 --> 00:41:46.607
as it seems now,
was to somehow elevate

00:41:46.673 --> 00:41:48.575
the level of American drama

00:41:48.642 --> 00:41:50.978
from a tedious mediocrity

00:41:51.044 --> 00:41:54.348
to something passionate
and meaningful and engaged.

00:41:57.217 --> 00:42:00.287
-Rather than buying an orchard
sort of straight out,

00:42:00.354 --> 00:42:02.289
I like to plant seeds
and see them grow.

00:42:02.356 --> 00:42:09.263
♪♪

00:42:09.329 --> 00:42:11.999
It was women reciting poetry.

00:42:12.065 --> 00:42:16.103
But what poetry.
It was exquisite writing.

00:42:16.170 --> 00:42:19.139
Very rich and full of color.

00:42:19.206 --> 00:42:20.407
Pardon the pun.

00:42:20.474 --> 00:42:23.477
♪♪

00:42:23.544 --> 00:42:26.146
-Joe was most alive

00:42:26.213 --> 00:42:27.848
when he was talking about

00:42:27.915 --> 00:42:29.750
his vision of what a play was

00:42:29.816 --> 00:42:31.885
or what a scene was.

00:42:31.952 --> 00:42:35.756
It was almost as if my spirit
or the artist's spirit

00:42:35.822 --> 00:42:37.991
was transferred to him.

00:42:38.058 --> 00:42:40.427
And all of a sudden, the
entire -- all the characters

00:42:40.494 --> 00:42:42.396
and all the moments of that play

00:42:42.462 --> 00:42:43.964
were just emanating
from his eyes.

00:42:44.031 --> 00:42:46.767
And that's what made him
such a fabulous producer,

00:42:46.834 --> 00:42:50.304
because he felt
what the artist felt.

00:42:50.370 --> 00:42:53.540
-There were scenes
that I will never forget.

00:42:53.607 --> 00:42:56.276
Just the brilliance of

00:42:56.343 --> 00:42:58.612
a young, African-American woman

00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:03.784
expressing her --
her life experience.

00:43:03.817 --> 00:43:07.621
-This has been an experiment
to see how selfish I could be,

00:43:07.688 --> 00:43:11.458
if I could really carry on
to snare a possible lover,

00:43:11.525 --> 00:43:15.729
if I was capable of debasing
myself for the love of another,

00:43:15.796 --> 00:43:18.165
if I could stand
not being wanted

00:43:18.232 --> 00:43:20.868
when I wanted to be wanted,
and I cannot.

00:43:20.934 --> 00:43:24.071
So, with no further assistance
or guidance from you,

00:43:24.137 --> 00:43:25.639
I am ending this affair.

00:43:25.706 --> 00:43:30.110
-So many different emotions
that it conjured up in people

00:43:30.177 --> 00:43:33.247
that you could -- you could hear
literal sounds,

00:43:33.313 --> 00:43:35.549
expressions, sighs, moans.

00:43:35.582 --> 00:43:38.051
-We wanted the audience
to have a visceral,

00:43:38.118 --> 00:43:41.088
tangible relationship with us
so they'd feel

00:43:41.154 --> 00:43:44.124
and know that being alive
and being colored was,

00:43:44.191 --> 00:43:46.527
in fact, a metaphysical dilemma.

00:43:46.593 --> 00:43:53.300
-This note is attached to
a plant I have been watering

00:43:53.367 --> 00:43:56.069
since the day I met you.

00:43:56.136 --> 00:43:58.438
Water it your damn self!

00:43:58.505 --> 00:44:02.876
♪♪

00:44:02.943 --> 00:44:05.379
-Joe understood American culture
is like a gumbo

00:44:05.445 --> 00:44:06.713
where you throw
all these ingredients

00:44:06.780 --> 00:44:08.448
which you should never
put together.

00:44:08.515 --> 00:44:09.917
And when the pot gets boiling

00:44:09.983 --> 00:44:11.885
and they collide
against one another,

00:44:11.952 --> 00:44:15.055
the juice of one ingredient
informs the juice of another.

00:44:15.122 --> 00:44:18.225
And it's that dynamic
which is American culture

00:44:18.292 --> 00:44:19.760
at its most brilliant.

00:44:19.826 --> 00:44:22.529
-I hate to see minorities
completely absorbed

00:44:22.596 --> 00:44:24.498
into the mainstream
of American life.

00:44:24.565 --> 00:44:26.133
-Right.
-I think we lose a great deal.

00:44:26.200 --> 00:44:29.703
I like what's different.
-Wait.

00:44:29.770 --> 00:44:31.972
Hey, what did you say?
$8?

00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:34.741
But we wanted $14.
Why didn't we get $14?

00:44:34.808 --> 00:44:36.610
Hello. You listening?

00:44:36.677 --> 00:44:39.446
♪♪

00:44:39.513 --> 00:44:42.816
-The plays that he did and
the authors that he reached for

00:44:42.883 --> 00:44:46.320
and the actors that he wanted
to nurture and support,

00:44:46.386 --> 00:44:48.755
the people he hired,
the faces you saw

00:44:48.822 --> 00:44:50.524
when you walked
into the building --

00:44:50.591 --> 00:44:54.995
It wasn't a theory.
It was a way of living.

00:44:55.062 --> 00:44:57.130
-Joe understood
that culture empowers you.

00:44:57.197 --> 00:45:01.134
It is -- It is the way
to affirm who you are.

00:45:01.201 --> 00:45:03.103
If you see your images,
if you see your stories

00:45:03.170 --> 00:45:04.671
being told,
it gives you another sense

00:45:04.738 --> 00:45:06.673
that you have a right
to be in the room.

00:45:06.740 --> 00:45:10.010
♪♪

00:45:10.077 --> 00:45:11.678
♪♪

00:45:11.745 --> 00:45:16.817
♪♪

00:45:16.884 --> 00:45:22.055
♪♪

00:45:24.391 --> 00:45:30.163
♪♪

00:45:30.230 --> 00:45:32.099
-It's amazing.

00:45:32.165 --> 00:45:33.367
It's probably very close

00:45:33.433 --> 00:45:36.403
to what the Elizabethan theater
used to be.

00:45:40.374 --> 00:45:42.910
People eating a sandwich
while you're doing it,

00:45:42.976 --> 00:45:44.778
and they have their kids,

00:45:44.845 --> 00:45:46.213
and the kids
sometimes are crying,

00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:48.448
and dogs would
walk on the stage --

00:45:48.515 --> 00:45:51.652
I mean that -- or a squirrel
would walk across.

00:45:51.718 --> 00:45:54.288
So you'd be waiting to do your
entrance from the vomitorium

00:45:54.354 --> 00:45:58.325
and you'd look up, and a family
of raccoons are staring at you.

00:45:59.459 --> 00:46:01.195
That's what
the Delacorte was like.

00:46:01.261 --> 00:46:06.567
♪♪

00:46:06.633 --> 00:46:11.939
♪♪

00:46:12.005 --> 00:46:17.411
-In his own idiosyncratic
and very opinionated way,

00:46:17.477 --> 00:46:21.048
Joe understood Shakespeare
from the neck down,

00:46:21.114 --> 00:46:24.251
and those productions
exploded with their energy.

00:46:24.318 --> 00:46:28.155
[ Laughter ]
-[ Speaking indistinctly ]

00:46:28.222 --> 00:46:31.358
-O, you are novices!

00:46:31.425 --> 00:46:35.195
Tis a world to see, how tame,
when men and women are alone,

00:46:35.262 --> 00:46:38.165
a meacock wretch
can make the curstest shrew.

00:46:38.232 --> 00:46:41.201
Give me thy hand, Kate:
I will unto Venice,

00:46:41.268 --> 00:46:42.836
Sunday comes apace
'gainst the wedding-day.

00:46:42.903 --> 00:46:45.105
provide the feast, father,
and bid the guests;

00:46:45.172 --> 00:46:47.908
I will be sure my Katherine
shall be fine.

00:46:47.975 --> 00:46:49.176
-I know not what to say.

00:46:49.243 --> 00:46:50.677
-The tradition
of doing Shakespeare

00:46:50.744 --> 00:46:52.713
belonged to the English,
not to us.

00:46:52.779 --> 00:46:57.651
And Joe wanted to erase
that distance between us.

00:46:57.718 --> 00:47:00.687
-Come, come, you wasp,
i'faith you are too angry.

00:47:00.754 --> 00:47:03.724
-If I be waspish,
best beware my sting.

00:47:03.790 --> 00:47:05.993
-My remedy is then
to pluck it out.

00:47:06.059 --> 00:47:08.362
-Ay, if the fool could find it
where it lies.

00:47:08.428 --> 00:47:11.932
-Who knows not where a wasp does
wear his sting? In his tail.

00:47:11.999 --> 00:47:13.934
-In his tongue.
-Whose tongue?

00:47:15.536 --> 00:47:18.572
-Yours.

00:47:23.210 --> 00:47:24.344
[ Laughter ]

00:47:24.411 --> 00:47:26.246
So, if you talk of tales...

00:47:27.681 --> 00:47:28.682
...farewell!

00:47:28.749 --> 00:47:30.551
-What, with my tongue
in your tail?

00:47:30.617 --> 00:47:31.618
[ Laughter ]

00:47:31.685 --> 00:47:33.453
-I could bring myself to it.

00:47:33.520 --> 00:47:37.457
I could bring my own culture,
my own Puerto Rican background,

00:47:37.524 --> 00:47:41.929
my own Spanish culture,
my own rhythms, my own...

00:47:41.995 --> 00:47:44.064
feelings to Shakespeare.

00:47:44.131 --> 00:47:47.334
-So Papp ultimately is telling
Raul Julia,

00:47:47.401 --> 00:47:48.569
"It's okay to speak Shakespeare

00:47:48.635 --> 00:47:49.837
with a Puerto Rican accent."

00:47:49.903 --> 00:47:52.706
That's a revolutionary change.

00:47:52.773 --> 00:47:55.709
-When you go to see
some Shakespeare and you got

00:47:55.776 --> 00:47:57.978
people of color,
Blacks and Latinos,

00:47:58.045 --> 00:48:00.547
like really in it
and really doing it,

00:48:00.614 --> 00:48:04.084
it just seemed like Shakespeare
can be mine.

00:48:04.151 --> 00:48:07.187
And then after a while,
everything was mine.

00:48:07.254 --> 00:48:10.490
Sondheim was mine
and Mahler was mine

00:48:10.557 --> 00:48:12.993
and Bartók was mine.

00:48:14.061 --> 00:48:18.098
-This my hand will rather
the multitudinous seas

00:48:18.165 --> 00:48:20.901
incarnadine,

00:48:20.968 --> 00:48:24.004
making the green one red.

00:48:24.071 --> 00:48:26.874
-We tried everything to open up
the whole issue

00:48:26.940 --> 00:48:29.042
that you're capturing
human beings.

00:48:29.109 --> 00:48:30.310
He would -- He would

00:48:30.377 --> 00:48:32.646
cast Hamlet as a woman.

00:48:32.713 --> 00:48:35.983
-To be or not to be...

00:48:36.049 --> 00:48:38.085
that is the question.

00:48:41.154 --> 00:48:42.856
Whether tis nobler
in the mind...

00:48:42.923 --> 00:48:45.592
-He wanted people to listen
to these great words

00:48:45.659 --> 00:48:49.263
for the first time,
and he also wanted people

00:48:49.329 --> 00:48:51.798
to listen to them
that had heard them often,

00:48:51.865 --> 00:48:53.600
but were never really
listening.

00:48:53.667 --> 00:48:57.004
-To die, to sleep,

00:48:57.070 --> 00:48:58.839
and by that sleep,
to end the heart ache

00:48:58.906 --> 00:49:02.543
and the thousand natural shocks
that flesh is heir to.

00:49:02.609 --> 00:49:04.211
-If you really want people
to listen to them

00:49:04.278 --> 00:49:05.445
for the first time,

00:49:05.512 --> 00:49:07.447
you have to own them
in a different way.

00:49:07.514 --> 00:49:11.552
-To die, to sleep...

00:49:15.289 --> 00:49:19.159
...to sleep
perchance to dream --

00:49:19.226 --> 00:49:21.528
ah, there's the rub.

00:49:21.595 --> 00:49:24.932
-Joe asked me to try
the "to be or not to be"

00:49:24.998 --> 00:49:26.266
out of my heritage.

00:49:26.333 --> 00:49:29.002
My father was Spanish.
My real name is Ramón Estévez.

00:49:29.069 --> 00:49:33.941
He hid Hamlet in the play as
kind of a Puerto Rican janitor.

00:49:34.007 --> 00:49:35.375
The Puerto Rican community,

00:49:35.442 --> 00:49:37.277
we're at the bottom rung
at this time,

00:49:37.344 --> 00:49:40.981
and he wanted people
to feel their plight.

00:49:41.048 --> 00:49:43.517
[ Puerto Rican accent ]
To be or not to be,

00:49:43.584 --> 00:49:44.818
that is the question.

00:49:44.885 --> 00:49:48.121
Whether 'tis nobler
in the mind to suffer

00:49:48.188 --> 00:49:51.158
the slings and arrows
of outrageous fortune,

00:49:51.225 --> 00:49:53.327
or to take arms against
a sea of troubles

00:49:53.393 --> 00:49:55.095
and, by opposing, to end them.

00:49:55.162 --> 00:49:56.463
[ Regular voice ]
The audience was in hysterics

00:49:56.530 --> 00:49:58.899
when it started
until about halfway through,

00:49:58.966 --> 00:50:02.736
and they began to listen,
some of them for the first time.

00:50:02.803 --> 00:50:06.306
And by the end, many of them
were in tears, you know?

00:50:06.373 --> 00:50:07.908
So, we were using this language

00:50:07.975 --> 00:50:11.211
that was nearly 400 years old
at the time

00:50:11.278 --> 00:50:14.414
in a community
where people were suffering,

00:50:14.481 --> 00:50:17.184
and this language was

00:50:17.251 --> 00:50:19.152
given a new voice.

00:50:19.186 --> 00:50:26.193
♪♪

00:50:28.862 --> 00:50:32.199
-♪ In Verona ♪

00:50:32.266 --> 00:50:33.600
-Joe would involve a person

00:50:33.667 --> 00:50:35.369
from one production
into the next.

00:50:35.435 --> 00:50:37.871
So he got Galt MacDermot,
the "Hair" composer.

00:50:37.938 --> 00:50:40.307
He felt, "Why don't you write
a song or two

00:50:40.374 --> 00:50:41.508
for the 'Two Gentlemen
of Verona'

00:50:41.575 --> 00:50:43.143
that we're doing in the park
this summer?"

00:50:43.210 --> 00:50:46.847
-And by the time the play began
previews in Central Park,

00:50:46.914 --> 00:50:49.917
it had been converted from
Shakespeare's play to a musical,

00:50:49.983 --> 00:50:51.618
retaining the name,
retaining the story,

00:50:51.685 --> 00:50:53.854
but told in contemporary terms.

00:50:53.921 --> 00:50:57.457
-♪ Night letter, so divine ♪

00:50:57.524 --> 00:51:00.861
♪ Night letter, come be mine ♪

00:51:00.928 --> 00:51:04.731
♪ Nothing better
than a hot night letter ♪

00:51:04.798 --> 00:51:08.302
♪ Night letter, oh, so cool ♪

00:51:08.368 --> 00:51:14.641
♪ Night letter ♪
-The show was sexy and hot.

00:51:14.708 --> 00:51:19.646
And it was hot and steamy
in Central Park.

00:51:19.713 --> 00:51:22.749
And then he and I are on stage,
and we're doing the whole thing

00:51:22.816 --> 00:51:24.484
and bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.

00:51:24.551 --> 00:51:29.890
And the number is over,
and the audience went nuts!

00:51:29.957 --> 00:51:33.393
[ Cheers and applause ]

00:51:33.460 --> 00:51:36.396
♪♪

00:51:36.463 --> 00:51:40.400
-It was Shakespearean "Hair."
It was a "Hair-y" Shakespeare.

00:51:40.467 --> 00:51:42.369
-It was a production
that exploded

00:51:42.436 --> 00:51:44.304
on the stage of the Delacorte.

00:51:44.371 --> 00:51:45.973
And the decision was made
that this play

00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:48.208
could readily go to Broadway.

00:51:48.275 --> 00:51:50.143
It opened
to extraordinary notices

00:51:50.210 --> 00:51:52.212
and became the first instance

00:51:52.279 --> 00:51:54.047
of the New York
Shakespeare Festival

00:51:54.114 --> 00:51:56.183
earning significant revenue

00:51:56.250 --> 00:51:59.653
from a self-produced play
on Broadway,

00:51:59.720 --> 00:52:02.956
playing to a broad,
popular audience.

00:52:03.023 --> 00:52:05.025
♪♪

00:52:05.092 --> 00:52:08.695
-Then Joe moves "Sticks
and Bones" by David Rabe.

00:52:08.762 --> 00:52:10.464
-Joe's thinking was that
"Two Gentlemen of Verona"

00:52:10.531 --> 00:52:12.132
made $10,000 a week.

00:52:12.199 --> 00:52:14.535
"Sticks and Bones"
lost $10,000 a week.

00:52:14.601 --> 00:52:16.603
It was even Steven.

00:52:16.670 --> 00:52:19.306
-There had never been
a Vietnam play on Broadway.

00:52:19.373 --> 00:52:21.408
In fact, there'd never been
a Vietnam play before David's

00:52:21.475 --> 00:52:23.877
that was in
a professional theater.

00:52:23.944 --> 00:52:26.146
-I honestly believe
part of Joe's aim in that

00:52:26.213 --> 00:52:28.782
was just to see
how far he could push --

00:52:28.849 --> 00:52:32.019
You know, he was a real --
he liked to provoke.

00:52:32.085 --> 00:52:35.088
And he had a play here
that he felt could provoke.

00:52:35.155 --> 00:52:39.426
♪♪

00:52:39.493 --> 00:52:40.727
-When they told me we were
moving to Broadway,

00:52:40.794 --> 00:52:42.796
I was actually embarrassed.

00:52:42.863 --> 00:52:45.365
I thought, "If my show
can go to Broadway,

00:52:45.432 --> 00:52:47.267
where they have all that trash,

00:52:47.334 --> 00:52:50.737
then surely I've done
something bad."

00:52:50.804 --> 00:52:54.274
I fought it tooth and nail.

00:52:54.341 --> 00:52:57.010
-I never envisioned myself

00:52:57.077 --> 00:52:59.146
as a Broadway playwright and

00:52:59.213 --> 00:53:02.683
had absolutely no aspirations
to become one.

00:53:02.749 --> 00:53:05.052
-But I realized the more
they advertised,

00:53:05.118 --> 00:53:07.387
the more Black people
would know about it

00:53:07.454 --> 00:53:08.956
and the more they would go.

00:53:09.022 --> 00:53:11.558
And in fact,
more Black people did come.

00:53:13.627 --> 00:53:17.865
-It was Joe who taught me
to be radical at the center.

00:53:17.931 --> 00:53:20.133
He didn't want to run
a little theater downtown.

00:53:20.200 --> 00:53:21.768
He wanted to get
the shows working

00:53:21.835 --> 00:53:25.138
and move them uptown
to Broadway.

00:53:25.205 --> 00:53:27.107
He wanted to storm the citadel

00:53:27.174 --> 00:53:29.343
because he believed
that radical ideas

00:53:29.409 --> 00:53:32.045
are more important
at the center.

00:53:32.112 --> 00:53:35.382
-Now the nominees
for the Best Broadway Musical.

00:53:35.449 --> 00:53:38.719
They are "Ain't Supposed to Die
a Natural Death"

00:53:38.785 --> 00:53:41.855
"Follies," "Two Gentlemen
of Verona," "Grease."

00:53:42.923 --> 00:53:44.825
Now...

00:53:44.892 --> 00:53:46.693
isn't that exciting?

00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:47.728
[ Laughter ]

00:53:47.794 --> 00:53:49.162
Upside-down.

00:53:49.229 --> 00:53:51.431
"Two Gentlemen of Verona."
[ Cheers and applause ]

00:53:51.498 --> 00:53:57.938
♪♪

00:53:58.005 --> 00:54:02.743
-The winner for Best Broadway
play is "Sticks and Bones."

00:54:02.809 --> 00:54:05.179
[ Cheers and applause ]

00:54:05.245 --> 00:54:12.252
♪♪

00:54:13.921 --> 00:54:16.557
-I really didn't think
it was possible.

00:54:16.623 --> 00:54:17.824
I mean, I really didn't.

00:54:17.891 --> 00:54:20.260
[ Laughter ]
So thank you very much.

00:54:20.327 --> 00:54:21.929
And thank you, everybody.

00:54:21.995 --> 00:54:23.330
And I...

00:54:23.397 --> 00:54:26.266
[ Cheers and applause ]

00:54:28.936 --> 00:54:32.472
-You know, writers are not very
articulate, as a matter of fact.

00:54:32.539 --> 00:54:36.476
But I'm so proud of David Rabe.
I think he's a beautiful writer.

00:54:36.543 --> 00:54:39.346
-So Joe became a major player
on Broadway,

00:54:39.413 --> 00:54:42.850
which was the last thing on
earth that he'd ever dreamed of.

00:54:42.916 --> 00:54:45.052
[ Cheers and applause ]

00:54:45.118 --> 00:54:46.820
-Five, six, seven, eight!

00:54:46.887 --> 00:54:48.889
♪♪

00:54:48.956 --> 00:54:52.192
-Why did we do "A Chorus Line"?
How did we do "A Chorus Line"?

00:54:52.259 --> 00:54:53.427
Chance!

00:54:53.493 --> 00:54:55.662
Sheer chance.

00:54:55.729 --> 00:54:58.665
-Hold it. Hilda, do me a favor.
You dance upstage.

00:54:58.732 --> 00:55:00.534
You, downstage.

00:55:00.601 --> 00:55:03.136
Again!
Five, six, seven, eight!

00:55:03.203 --> 00:55:04.838
-First thing that happened
was Michael Bennett

00:55:04.905 --> 00:55:07.207
coming to my office
and bringing me hours and hours

00:55:07.274 --> 00:55:11.278
of tapes and dancers
talking about their lives.

00:55:11.345 --> 00:55:14.715
I listened to the tapes,
and they made me cry.

00:55:14.781 --> 00:55:16.717
They told the most
horrible stories

00:55:16.783 --> 00:55:18.418
about their lives with smiles.

00:55:18.485 --> 00:55:20.220
You could hear their laughing.

00:55:20.287 --> 00:55:21.922
And I was so moved by it.

00:55:21.989 --> 00:55:25.325
-♪ Who am I anyway? ♪

00:55:25.392 --> 00:55:29.630
♪ Am I my résumé ♪

00:55:29.696 --> 00:55:32.900
♪ That is a picture ♪

00:55:32.933 --> 00:55:37.504
♪ Of a person I don't know? ♪

00:55:37.571 --> 00:55:39.773
-He deals with people
trying to get jobs.

00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:42.776
-♪ I need this job ♪

00:55:42.843 --> 00:55:44.311
-When he asks
the Puerto Rican girl

00:55:44.378 --> 00:55:46.146
the personal question
and she says,

00:55:46.213 --> 00:55:47.548
"Do I have to answer that?"

00:55:47.614 --> 00:55:48.815
He says,
"You want this job, don't you?"

00:55:48.882 --> 00:55:50.150
-Look, I really
don't mind talking,

00:55:50.217 --> 00:55:51.652
but just can't be the first.

00:55:51.718 --> 00:55:54.688
Please?
-You want the job, don't you?

00:55:54.755 --> 00:55:58.559
-And she steps back.
It breaks my heart, that line.

00:55:58.625 --> 00:56:00.661
She wanted that job,
and even the song,

00:56:00.727 --> 00:56:02.763
♪ I really need this job ♪

00:56:02.829 --> 00:56:05.999
I know --
understand that totally.

00:56:06.066 --> 00:56:09.970
-One, change. Walk, walk.

00:56:10.037 --> 00:56:13.540
And he said,
"I'll give you a workshop."

00:56:13.607 --> 00:56:15.509
And I went,
"No, look, I've heard about you.

00:56:15.576 --> 00:56:17.511
I mean, I know how you take care
of your writers

00:56:17.578 --> 00:56:19.346
and your father trips
and all that stuff.

00:56:19.413 --> 00:56:21.682
No, I don't need any of that.
I just want a place to work."

00:56:21.748 --> 00:56:24.017
He went, "Write. That's all."

00:56:24.084 --> 00:56:29.022
Point, point, point, flex, step,
kick, step, change, continuing.

00:56:29.089 --> 00:56:31.792
So I worked for about two weeks,
and I went to Joe and I said,

00:56:31.859 --> 00:56:34.862
"Uh, huh, I don't know,
it's not happening."

00:56:34.928 --> 00:56:39.700
And he said, "That's all right.
Take two more weeks."

00:56:39.766 --> 00:56:41.735
Well, now, I came
from the commercial theater,

00:56:41.802 --> 00:56:43.337
so I wasn't used to this.

00:56:43.403 --> 00:56:47.241
Now, about nine months later,
I really wasn't used to this.

00:56:47.307 --> 00:56:52.746
And I also -- If I ever needed
a daddy, I found one.

00:56:52.813 --> 00:56:54.648
-Okay, I'm eliminating down.

00:56:54.715 --> 00:56:56.483
When I call out your number,
please form a line.

00:56:56.550 --> 00:56:57.718
Girls first.
Number two.

00:56:57.784 --> 00:56:59.853
Number nine.

00:56:59.920 --> 00:57:01.121
Number 10.

00:57:01.188 --> 00:57:02.322
Number 23.

00:57:02.389 --> 00:57:04.825
Judy Turner. Right.

00:57:04.892 --> 00:57:06.493
37.

00:57:06.560 --> 00:57:07.761
149.

00:57:07.828 --> 00:57:09.263
152.

00:57:11.198 --> 00:57:12.799
179.

00:57:13.734 --> 00:57:14.935
Cassie.

00:57:16.236 --> 00:57:22.876
♪♪

00:57:22.943 --> 00:57:26.280
-♪ One, singular sensation ♪

00:57:26.346 --> 00:57:29.850
♪ Every little step she takes ♪

00:57:29.917 --> 00:57:32.920
♪ One, thrilling combination ♪

00:57:32.986 --> 00:57:36.223
♪ Every move that she makes ♪

00:57:36.290 --> 00:57:38.859
-On opening night,
I was backstage,

00:57:38.926 --> 00:57:41.128
and during that last number,
"One,"

00:57:41.195 --> 00:57:42.796
when the music peaks,

00:57:42.863 --> 00:57:44.531
the audience stood up in unison

00:57:44.598 --> 00:57:46.633
and screamed
and cheered so loudly,

00:57:46.700 --> 00:57:50.037
it was like a wall of sound
coming at the stage.

00:57:50.103 --> 00:57:51.672
-♪ Moment in her presence ♪

00:57:51.738 --> 00:57:53.740
-Strangers were
laughing and kissing,

00:57:53.807 --> 00:57:58.312
and people
were crying and cheering.

00:57:58.378 --> 00:58:00.714
"A Chorus Line" blew the roof
off the public theater.

00:58:00.781 --> 00:58:04.918
-♪ Oooh! Sigh!
Give her your attention ♪

00:58:04.985 --> 00:58:08.355
♪ Do I really have to mention ♪

00:58:08.388 --> 00:58:12.559
♪ She's the, she's the... ♪

00:58:12.626 --> 00:58:13.827
-"A Chorus Line" supported

00:58:13.894 --> 00:58:15.762
this entire organization
for eight years.

00:58:15.829 --> 00:58:17.764
It was like having
a small state,

00:58:17.831 --> 00:58:21.835
a small country
supporting this institution.

00:58:21.902 --> 00:58:25.239
-He beat out all the more
old-fashioned Broadway producers

00:58:25.305 --> 00:58:28.008
in figuring out how to develop a
play without spending any money.

00:58:28.075 --> 00:58:29.710
He could just workshop
them downtown.

00:58:29.776 --> 00:58:31.178
He could workshop them
right here.

00:58:31.245 --> 00:58:32.379
If he had something hot,

00:58:32.446 --> 00:58:33.647
he could move it uptown.

00:58:33.714 --> 00:58:36.617
It was an incredible idea,
but he invented the idea.

00:58:36.683 --> 00:58:38.485
And then the idea
of taking those profits

00:58:38.552 --> 00:58:39.786
and not going off
to Bermuda with them

00:58:39.853 --> 00:58:41.922
but plugging them right back
into the non-profit,

00:58:41.989 --> 00:58:44.758
you know, thing here
was enormously innovative.

00:58:44.825 --> 00:58:51.598
-♪ She's the one ♪

00:58:51.665 --> 00:58:52.900
-At that point,

00:58:52.966 --> 00:58:56.103
Joe was the most powerful man
in American theater.

00:58:56.170 --> 00:58:58.572
♪♪

00:59:02.876 --> 00:59:08.182
-Uneasy lies the head
that wears a crown.

00:59:08.248 --> 00:59:11.919
O, the blood more stirs
to rouse a lion

00:59:11.985 --> 00:59:14.988
than to start a hare.

00:59:15.055 --> 00:59:19.126
O, it is excellent
to have a giant's strength,

00:59:19.193 --> 00:59:24.932
but it is tyrannous
to use it like a giant.

00:59:28.836 --> 00:59:32.639
-Our mission was make a surprise
birthday party for Joe

00:59:32.706 --> 00:59:36.176
for 2,000 people
at the Delacorte Theater.

00:59:36.243 --> 00:59:39.479
So we had a secret organization
existing here within the theater

00:59:39.546 --> 00:59:43.217
that plotted, planned,
and executed a birthday party

00:59:43.283 --> 00:59:45.252
that was a celebration of Joe.

00:59:45.319 --> 00:59:48.121
[ Fireworks booming ]

00:59:51.525 --> 00:59:55.062
[ Cheers and applause ]

00:59:59.900 --> 01:00:03.437
-[ Laughs ]

01:00:05.906 --> 01:00:08.275
It's like a dream!

01:00:08.342 --> 01:00:10.611
-It was quite
an extraordinary evening,

01:00:10.677 --> 01:00:14.314
which included a spoof of
a day in the life of Joe Papp.

01:00:14.381 --> 01:00:16.283
-I'm tired of feeling guilty,

01:00:16.350 --> 01:00:20.787
feeling guilty because people
are Black or white or convicts

01:00:20.854 --> 01:00:24.458
or basketball players
or soldiers!

01:00:24.525 --> 01:00:26.827
I can't take any more guilt!

01:00:26.894 --> 01:00:29.363
I'm going to end it.
I'm going to end you!

01:00:29.429 --> 01:00:31.398
Which one of you is Joe Papp?

01:00:31.465 --> 01:00:35.402
[ Laughter ]

01:00:35.469 --> 01:00:38.906
-Bernie, would you step in here
for a minute, please?

01:00:40.073 --> 01:00:42.743
-Yes, Joe?
-There's Joe Papp!

01:00:42.809 --> 01:00:44.645
[ Bang! ]
-Ooh!

01:00:44.711 --> 01:00:45.712
[ Laughter ]

01:00:45.779 --> 01:00:50.517
-Sic semper tyrannis!

01:00:50.584 --> 01:00:52.886
-Were you really surprised?
-Oh, come on!

01:00:52.953 --> 01:00:54.721
[ Laughter ]

01:00:54.788 --> 01:00:57.991
I was stunned!
-Joe does this

01:00:58.058 --> 01:00:59.927
not for money,

01:00:59.993 --> 01:01:03.330
not for self-aggrandizement,

01:01:03.397 --> 01:01:06.633
but for sheer love
of naked power.

01:01:06.700 --> 01:01:08.335
[ Laughter ]

01:01:08.402 --> 01:01:12.806
♪♪

01:01:12.873 --> 01:01:16.677
-I was flabbergasted.
Absolutely stunned.

01:01:19.546 --> 01:01:21.582
The whole evening, I thought,
was just gorgeous,

01:01:21.648 --> 01:01:23.183
and there was a cake
and Helen Hayes

01:01:23.250 --> 01:01:25.219
and three or four mayors
and all these people.

01:01:25.285 --> 01:01:28.488
I felt, "What a beautiful,
beautiful event."

01:01:28.555 --> 01:01:30.090
But as the evening wore on,

01:01:30.157 --> 01:01:32.759
I began to think,
"Wait a second.

01:01:32.826 --> 01:01:35.963
I wonder how much this cost,"

01:01:36.029 --> 01:01:38.899
and, "How come I didn't know
about it at all?"

01:01:41.635 --> 01:01:43.203
-Joe was aghast at the fact

01:01:43.270 --> 01:01:47.341
that that much could go on
that he didn't know about.

01:01:47.374 --> 01:01:50.344
"How could I possibly be in
the middle of the public theater

01:01:50.410 --> 01:01:51.678
and have 50 million people

01:01:51.745 --> 01:01:52.913
and the President
of the United States

01:01:52.980 --> 01:01:54.081
involved in something
that I never knew about

01:01:54.147 --> 01:01:55.816
until I walked onstage?"

01:01:58.352 --> 01:02:02.322
I think we're talking about
a man and his fear of losing it.

01:02:04.458 --> 01:02:07.895
That idea of "Am I on top of it?
Am I in control?

01:02:07.961 --> 01:02:13.100
Do I know everything about this?
Am I the boss still?"

01:02:13.133 --> 01:02:15.169
You start to worry,
"Am I getting old? Am I --"

01:02:15.235 --> 01:02:19.673
You know, "Am I losing my --
my grip over everything?"

01:02:19.740 --> 01:02:24.511
-And he would do some really bad
things sometimes to people,

01:02:24.578 --> 01:02:27.614
things that were not polite
or...

01:02:27.681 --> 01:02:29.183
[ Chuckles ]
That's a nice word for it.

01:02:29.249 --> 01:02:31.018
...brutal.

01:02:31.084 --> 01:02:32.920
-There would be people
who I knew,

01:02:32.986 --> 01:02:34.855
particularly people who worked
in the building,

01:02:34.922 --> 01:02:37.724
who'd be relaxed,
easygoing, funny,

01:02:37.791 --> 01:02:39.059
charming.

01:02:39.126 --> 01:02:41.995
You'd talk to them anywhere
in the building.

01:02:42.062 --> 01:02:43.497
The minute Joe came in,

01:02:43.564 --> 01:02:46.166
they became a completely
different person.

01:02:46.200 --> 01:02:48.969
All their spontaneity
and humor would disappear.

01:02:49.036 --> 01:02:54.741
They'd suddenly...
simply be attendant lords.

01:02:55.876 --> 01:02:57.644
People would say, "I'm going to
go in and tell Joe this,

01:02:57.711 --> 01:02:58.979
and I feel that
and I feel this."

01:02:59.046 --> 01:03:01.348
I'd say, "Yeah, you go in,
you tell him."

01:03:01.415 --> 01:03:03.183
The words would dry
in their mouths.

01:03:03.250 --> 01:03:04.985
They wouldn't tell him.

01:03:06.653 --> 01:03:09.623
I don't think he enjoyed
the power that he had

01:03:09.690 --> 01:03:12.459
to dominate a room sometimes.

01:03:12.526 --> 01:03:15.329
It just was his only means
of being in a room.

01:03:18.799 --> 01:03:21.902
-Joe and I had a falling out
about a second play

01:03:21.969 --> 01:03:25.239
that Michael Bennett
intended to direct.

01:03:25.272 --> 01:03:27.140
Joe said,
"I don't want you to do that.

01:03:27.207 --> 01:03:28.509
I won't allow you to do it."

01:03:28.575 --> 01:03:30.978
And I said, "Joe,
I'm going to do it."

01:03:31.011 --> 01:03:33.447
And he said, "In that case,
you have to quit."

01:03:33.480 --> 01:03:35.048
And I said, "Joe,
I am not going to quit.

01:03:35.115 --> 01:03:36.884
You're going to
have to fire me."

01:03:36.917 --> 01:03:38.519
He said, "You're fired."

01:03:42.389 --> 01:03:45.893
-"Oh, Joseph, although you're on
the side of the angels,

01:03:45.959 --> 01:03:49.630
you're in grave danger
of becoming a minor fascist."

01:03:49.663 --> 01:03:53.867
And he said,
"What was your first clue?"

01:03:53.934 --> 01:03:57.137
I said, "Well, cutting off
your right arm.

01:03:57.204 --> 01:04:00.174
There can be
no explanation for that."

01:04:00.240 --> 01:04:01.842
He said, "You mean Bernie?"

01:04:01.909 --> 01:04:04.011
I said, "I mean Bernard."

01:04:05.479 --> 01:04:06.847
-A lot of people talked about,

01:04:06.914 --> 01:04:09.349
there's a conflict
in your personality.

01:04:09.416 --> 01:04:11.818
Some of the words they used --
that you were elusive,

01:04:11.885 --> 01:04:14.087
dehumanized,
you were in search of yourself

01:04:14.154 --> 01:04:15.722
and that caused
a lot of problems

01:04:15.789 --> 01:04:17.958
in your relationships
with other people.

01:04:20.360 --> 01:04:22.963
-Well, maybe true.

01:04:23.030 --> 01:04:24.998
-Do you think it is?
-No.

01:04:25.065 --> 01:04:28.001
I mean, part -- You can say that
about almost anybody.

01:04:28.068 --> 01:04:30.604
And what's wrong
with searching for yourself?

01:04:32.105 --> 01:04:35.409
-Joe was a very complicated guy,

01:04:35.475 --> 01:04:38.378
and it was a huge embrace
to be in,

01:04:38.445 --> 01:04:40.547
and it was this wonderful thing.

01:04:40.614 --> 01:04:45.252
And then it was
an embrace that felt...

01:04:45.319 --> 01:04:48.155
suffocating at a certain point,

01:04:48.222 --> 01:04:51.859
and I felt the need
to try my hand elsewhere.

01:04:53.594 --> 01:04:55.429
On both sides, there was a lot
of hurt feelings,

01:04:55.495 --> 01:04:57.231
and we parted.

01:04:59.499 --> 01:05:02.669
One of those things you don't
get to go back over in life.

01:05:02.736 --> 01:05:07.674
But...the impact
and the connection was huge.

01:05:07.741 --> 01:05:14.414
♪♪

01:05:14.481 --> 01:05:17.017
-The thing that I think
made Joe great

01:05:17.084 --> 01:05:18.852
was the fact
that he was so flawed

01:05:18.919 --> 01:05:20.921
and that he reached so high.

01:05:20.988 --> 01:05:25.058
And in that way, he was like
the Shakespeare characters

01:05:25.125 --> 01:05:26.393
that he loved so much.

01:05:26.460 --> 01:05:32.599
♪♪

01:05:32.666 --> 01:05:38.805
♪♪

01:05:38.872 --> 01:05:45.112
♪♪

01:05:46.146 --> 01:05:48.949
♪♪

01:05:49.016 --> 01:05:50.918
-He always had
a terribly personal

01:05:50.984 --> 01:05:52.252
relationship with actors.

01:05:52.319 --> 01:05:53.887
He always knew about
their husbands

01:05:53.954 --> 01:05:56.757
or their wives
or their children.

01:05:56.823 --> 01:05:59.493
-When my son was born,
he was the first person,

01:05:59.560 --> 01:06:03.430
before my husband, who got into
my room in recovery.

01:06:03.497 --> 01:06:07.267
I'm coming out of the fog,
and there's Joe.

01:06:07.334 --> 01:06:09.903
I said,
"How did you get in here?"

01:06:09.970 --> 01:06:12.139
He said, "What are you
going to name the child?"

01:06:12.206 --> 01:06:14.842
I think he thought,
you know, Joe would be good.

01:06:14.908 --> 01:06:18.779
-He danced at our wedding
and was there for our children.

01:06:18.846 --> 01:06:21.114
Joe was essentially our father.

01:06:21.181 --> 01:06:23.417
He was our surrogate father.

01:06:23.483 --> 01:06:27.387
-And it actually complicated
numbers of relationships.

01:06:27.454 --> 01:06:30.958
He used to say, "My kids have
every reason to want to kill me"

01:06:31.024 --> 01:06:33.727
because he wasn't available
as a parent.

01:06:36.496 --> 01:06:39.132
-He was married
to this institution,

01:06:39.166 --> 01:06:41.368
and it was his wife
and his mistress

01:06:41.435 --> 01:06:43.136
and his family and his children.

01:06:43.170 --> 01:06:46.874
♪♪

01:06:46.940 --> 01:06:50.577
-We just grew further
and further apart

01:06:50.611 --> 01:06:54.681
until finally I asked
for the divorce.

01:06:55.415 --> 01:06:59.620
♪♪

01:06:59.686 --> 01:07:03.690
-I have very little family life
because I work all the time.

01:07:04.992 --> 01:07:06.960
I mean, I work like
seven days a week.

01:07:06.994 --> 01:07:10.330
I have relationships with
my children of varying kinds.

01:07:12.699 --> 01:07:15.469
I like family life,
but I can't lead one.

01:07:17.404 --> 01:07:20.340
-I always felt that
the best side of Joe came out

01:07:20.407 --> 01:07:21.842
when he was with my family...

01:07:21.909 --> 01:07:24.578
in Utah.

01:07:24.645 --> 01:07:29.016
He was the most relaxed,
loving, fun.

01:07:29.082 --> 01:07:31.718
He kind of dropped
all his defensiveness

01:07:31.785 --> 01:07:33.687
when he was around my family.

01:07:33.754 --> 01:07:37.457
Joe loved being on the ranch,

01:07:37.491 --> 01:07:39.493
and he loved following
my father around

01:07:39.560 --> 01:07:43.530
and learning how to herd cattle
and lift sheep over the fence

01:07:43.597 --> 01:07:45.766
and ride horses.

01:07:45.799 --> 01:07:48.368
Of course, my father
was an anti-communist,

01:07:48.435 --> 01:07:54.608
but Joe and my father,
they just had this connection.

01:07:54.675 --> 01:07:57.945
Joe told me once, "Your father
is the only man

01:07:58.011 --> 01:08:00.714
I've ever met
that I really trust."

01:08:00.747 --> 01:08:07.754
♪♪

01:08:07.821 --> 01:08:14.828
♪♪

01:08:15.028 --> 01:08:17.631
-Splendid isolation.

01:08:17.698 --> 01:08:19.499
It just defines me.

01:08:19.566 --> 01:08:22.803
♪♪

01:08:22.870 --> 01:08:24.938
You lead a rather
lonely existence.

01:08:25.005 --> 01:08:28.208
You're at the top, and you have
to be able to evaluate

01:08:28.275 --> 01:08:30.077
how people relate to you.

01:08:31.845 --> 01:08:33.046
-And once in the car, he said,

01:08:33.113 --> 01:08:35.349
"You know, Emmett,
when we get bad reviews,

01:08:35.415 --> 01:08:37.551
part of my job is to go around
and console people

01:08:37.618 --> 01:08:39.820
and tell them that they are good
and don't pay any attention

01:08:39.887 --> 01:08:41.255
to those bad reviews.

01:08:41.321 --> 01:08:42.623
But you know what?

01:08:42.689 --> 01:08:45.993
No one comes around
and comforts me.

01:08:46.059 --> 01:08:47.494
I'm on my own."

01:08:49.096 --> 01:08:53.433
-Joe's life is so much his work
that the only way to

01:08:53.500 --> 01:08:57.504
have an organic relationship
with Joe is to work with him.

01:08:57.571 --> 01:09:00.974
-I worked 10 years as the head
of the play department,

01:09:01.041 --> 01:09:04.545
and then our -- you know,
people grow and they change

01:09:04.578 --> 01:09:06.113
and that happened to us both.

01:09:06.180 --> 01:09:08.115
And that's what made it possible

01:09:08.182 --> 01:09:11.251
for us to fall in love
and get married.

01:09:11.318 --> 01:09:17.658
♪♪

01:09:17.724 --> 01:09:24.198
♪♪

01:09:28.769 --> 01:09:33.140
-I have touched the highest
point of all my greatness;

01:09:33.207 --> 01:09:36.510
and from that
full meridian of my glory

01:09:36.577 --> 01:09:39.680
I haste now to my setting:

01:09:39.746 --> 01:09:44.151
I shall fall like a bright
exhalation in the evening,

01:09:44.218 --> 01:09:47.120
and no man see me more.

01:09:49.957 --> 01:09:52.726
-First, let me say,
we didn't come here today

01:09:52.793 --> 01:09:55.896
to preside over the demolition
of this theater

01:09:55.963 --> 01:09:57.564
and the Helen Hayes Theater.

01:09:57.631 --> 01:10:00.033
We're here to stop
the demolition.

01:10:00.100 --> 01:10:01.702
[ Cheers and applause ]

01:10:01.768 --> 01:10:05.439
♪♪

01:10:05.506 --> 01:10:09.009
-Joe came from a generation
that was politically activated,

01:10:09.076 --> 01:10:11.311
but in the '80s,
it was a different era.

01:10:11.378 --> 01:10:12.980
It had to do all about
making money

01:10:13.046 --> 01:10:16.483
and Wall Street
and business interests.

01:10:16.550 --> 01:10:20.554
♪♪

01:10:20.621 --> 01:10:22.723
-What he truly believed

01:10:22.789 --> 01:10:25.692
was that the government
should support the arts

01:10:25.759 --> 01:10:29.563
and there should be
a deep commitment

01:10:29.630 --> 01:10:32.866
to a burgeoning
and developing American culture.

01:10:32.900 --> 01:10:36.870
-I think that he spent more time
than we ever knew

01:10:36.937 --> 01:10:38.906
or could have imagined

01:10:38.972 --> 01:10:40.841
just trying to get bills paid.

01:10:42.142 --> 01:10:43.710
-We're a non-profit
organization.

01:10:43.777 --> 01:10:47.447
No individual accrues any profit
from the benefits of any show,

01:10:47.514 --> 01:10:48.949
which means
you just don't make money.

01:10:49.016 --> 01:10:50.951
It's an institution that
has to be continually supported.

01:10:51.018 --> 01:10:53.820
♪♪

01:10:53.887 --> 01:10:56.423
-In the late 1980s,

01:10:56.490 --> 01:10:58.525
the National Endowment
for the Arts

01:10:58.592 --> 01:11:00.194
suddenly became
a political football

01:11:00.260 --> 01:11:01.195
in Congress.

01:11:01.261 --> 01:11:03.564
-No artist
has a preemptive claim

01:11:03.630 --> 01:11:07.568
on the tax dollars
of the American people

01:11:07.634 --> 01:11:10.137
to put forth such trash.

01:11:11.371 --> 01:11:13.006
-Joe was given the grant

01:11:13.073 --> 01:11:15.075
with a rider attached to it

01:11:15.142 --> 01:11:17.044
saying,
"If you accept this money,

01:11:17.110 --> 01:11:19.213
you have to sign this oath."

01:11:19.279 --> 01:11:21.648
♪♪

01:11:21.715 --> 01:11:22.683
-I felt it was

01:11:22.749 --> 01:11:24.918
restricting
freedom of expression.

01:11:24.985 --> 01:11:28.255
The arts need to have room
to breathe.

01:11:28.322 --> 01:11:30.557
-He turned down over $300,000

01:11:30.624 --> 01:11:33.393
because he wouldn't sign
the Jesse Helms loyalty oath.

01:11:33.460 --> 01:11:35.495
And while all the rest of us

01:11:35.562 --> 01:11:36.496
were yelling and screaming

01:11:36.563 --> 01:11:38.265
and making a big display,

01:11:38.332 --> 01:11:40.667
Joe actually turned
the money down.

01:11:40.734 --> 01:11:43.604
-What does Kent say in "Lear"?
"Anger hath a privilege."

01:11:43.670 --> 01:11:45.973
And sometimes I feel, you know,

01:11:46.039 --> 01:11:47.908
you just speak out
on these things.

01:11:47.975 --> 01:11:54.214
♪♪

01:11:54.281 --> 01:11:56.583
-It was a hideous time.

01:11:56.650 --> 01:11:59.786
People were dying like flies,
and I was determined

01:11:59.853 --> 01:12:01.922
that I had to somehow
get this message out

01:12:01.989 --> 01:12:04.024
as quickly as I could.

01:12:04.091 --> 01:12:05.759
And so I wrote my play

01:12:05.826 --> 01:12:08.095
as fast as I could

01:12:08.161 --> 01:12:11.265
and just sent it around
to everybody.

01:12:11.331 --> 01:12:16.170
-Nobody was mentioning
the word "AIDS" anywhere.

01:12:16.236 --> 01:12:18.172
The newspaper
had not printed the word.

01:12:18.238 --> 01:12:19.573
It was not on television.

01:12:19.640 --> 01:12:20.974
And yet we knew

01:12:21.041 --> 01:12:22.342
there were people dying

01:12:22.409 --> 01:12:24.611
and there was a crisis.

01:12:24.678 --> 01:12:27.214
So I had this tremendous
sense of urgency

01:12:27.281 --> 01:12:28.849
about Larry's play.

01:12:28.916 --> 01:12:30.417
I sensed that there
was something there

01:12:30.484 --> 01:12:32.219
that could be achieved.

01:12:34.588 --> 01:12:36.390
-It was a very gutsy play
for him to produce.

01:12:36.456 --> 01:12:38.025
It criticized
The New York Times

01:12:38.091 --> 01:12:40.527
and it criticized his landlord,

01:12:40.594 --> 01:12:43.330
the city of New York,
Mayor Ed Koch.

01:12:43.397 --> 01:12:46.733
-We're living in an age
of extraordinary passion

01:12:46.800 --> 01:12:48.535
and struggle.

01:12:48.602 --> 01:12:50.237
And to have something less
on the stage

01:12:50.304 --> 01:12:53.240
than what happens in life
is a cop-out.

01:12:53.307 --> 01:12:56.810
[ Telephone rings ]

01:12:56.877 --> 01:12:58.712
-Yeah.

01:12:58.779 --> 01:13:00.514
Alright. Hold on.

01:13:00.581 --> 01:13:03.450
"It is no secret --"
That's right.

01:13:03.517 --> 01:13:05.686
"It is no secret
that I consider the mayor

01:13:05.752 --> 01:13:07.588
to be, along with the Times,
the biggest enemy

01:13:07.654 --> 01:13:10.290
gay men and women
must contend with in New York.

01:13:10.357 --> 01:13:12.693
Until the day I die, I will
never forgive this newspaper

01:13:12.759 --> 01:13:14.628
and this mayor
for ignoring this epidemic

01:13:14.695 --> 01:13:16.763
which is killing
so many of my friends."

01:13:16.830 --> 01:13:19.600
All right. Here's the end.

01:13:19.666 --> 01:13:22.002
And every gay man
who refuses to come forward now

01:13:22.069 --> 01:13:24.004
and fight to save his own life
is truly helping

01:13:24.071 --> 01:13:25.305
to kill the rest of us.

01:13:25.372 --> 01:13:26.340
How many of us have to die

01:13:26.406 --> 01:13:27.774
before you get scared
off your ass

01:13:27.841 --> 01:13:29.776
and into action?"

01:13:29.843 --> 01:13:31.778
Thank you.

01:13:31.845 --> 01:13:33.480
-Do you think Michael,
he shouldn't read it --

01:13:33.547 --> 01:13:34.681
or do it that way?

01:13:34.748 --> 01:13:36.016
I think he's doing it
a little stronger now.

01:13:36.083 --> 01:13:39.520
-Joe just became so passionate
about this play.

01:13:39.586 --> 01:13:42.789
It was like it was his child.

01:13:42.856 --> 01:13:45.559
-How many do you know now?

01:13:45.626 --> 01:13:48.695
-40. Dead.

01:13:48.762 --> 01:13:51.198
That's too many
for one person to know.

01:13:51.265 --> 01:13:54.034
♪♪

01:13:54.101 --> 01:13:56.003
-The play was so devastating.

01:13:56.069 --> 01:13:57.804
Every night
at the end of the play,

01:13:57.871 --> 01:14:00.474
people would sit there
and be unable to move,

01:14:00.541 --> 01:14:02.342
absolutely stunned.

01:14:02.409 --> 01:14:04.611
♪♪

01:14:04.678 --> 01:14:06.680
-On opening night,
he wrote me this note

01:14:06.747 --> 01:14:08.715
saying that it was
"The Normal Heart"

01:14:08.782 --> 01:14:13.187
that made him...

01:14:13.253 --> 01:14:14.755
get in touch again

01:14:14.821 --> 01:14:15.923
with the kind of theater

01:14:15.989 --> 01:14:18.058
that he wanted to run.

01:14:18.125 --> 01:14:20.727
-Joe became much more conscious
of the role he could play

01:14:20.794 --> 01:14:23.263
in increasing
the consciousness about AIDS,

01:14:23.330 --> 01:14:26.033
and this play
was the main vehicle.

01:14:26.099 --> 01:14:30.871
But I think his consciousness
was also raised by his own son

01:14:30.938 --> 01:14:34.107
telling him that he was gay
in his teens

01:14:34.174 --> 01:14:38.111
and then dealing with his own
fatherly feelings about that.

01:14:38.178 --> 01:14:40.581
And Tony helped him
a great deal.

01:14:40.647 --> 01:14:43.217
They grew much closer.

01:14:43.283 --> 01:14:48.322
And then Joe found out that
he had prostate cancer in 1987,

01:14:48.388 --> 01:14:50.791
the same year that Tony
found out that he had AIDS.

01:14:50.858 --> 01:14:57.865
♪♪

01:14:58.599 --> 01:15:01.702
It was incomprehensible,
he and Tony should be dying,

01:15:01.768 --> 01:15:04.738
he and his son,
at the same time,

01:15:04.805 --> 01:15:05.806
both of them in the same room.

01:15:05.873 --> 01:15:08.509
It was just unbelievable.

01:15:08.575 --> 01:15:12.112
♪♪

01:15:12.179 --> 01:15:14.181
-It was just horrendous

01:15:14.248 --> 01:15:18.552
for father and son
to be dying side by side,

01:15:18.619 --> 01:15:20.387
this man who had been

01:15:20.454 --> 01:15:22.256
so much the master of himself

01:15:22.322 --> 01:15:24.224
and his world and his life.

01:15:24.291 --> 01:15:26.793
♪♪

01:15:26.860 --> 01:15:29.696
-He said, "I don't know
how to go about dying."

01:15:29.763 --> 01:15:31.698
♪♪

01:15:31.765 --> 01:15:36.370
It was the only challenge
that I think stumped him.

01:15:36.436 --> 01:15:39.606
Joe made numbers of calls
where he felt relationships

01:15:39.673 --> 01:15:44.178
had been complicated
or neglected in some way.

01:15:44.244 --> 01:15:47.014
-We made up and became friends

01:15:47.080 --> 01:15:49.583
and forgave each other

01:15:49.650 --> 01:15:52.486
what we each felt
we had done to each other.

01:15:52.553 --> 01:15:54.855
-He asked for forgiveness
for all kinds of things,

01:15:54.922 --> 01:15:57.124
and he brought this family
back together again.

01:15:57.191 --> 01:15:58.992
For whatever his journey
might have been,

01:15:59.059 --> 01:16:00.694
he brought the family
back together.

01:16:00.761 --> 01:16:02.329
It came full circle.

01:16:02.396 --> 01:16:06.500
♪♪

01:16:06.567 --> 01:16:09.970
-Tony died first, and I --

01:16:10.037 --> 01:16:13.407
I didn't know
how I was gonna tell Joe this.

01:16:13.473 --> 01:16:16.977
It was just the hardest thing
I ever had to do in my life.

01:16:18.278 --> 01:16:21.481
-I've never heard...

01:16:21.548 --> 01:16:24.184
a sound come out of a man,

01:16:24.251 --> 01:16:29.456
like a kind of wail,
a kind of yelp, a kind of...

01:16:29.523 --> 01:16:33.827
It was the most profound,
naked pain

01:16:33.894 --> 01:16:36.630
I've ever heard uttered

01:16:36.697 --> 01:16:39.433
as he broke down crying.

01:16:39.499 --> 01:16:46.507
♪♪

01:16:47.841 --> 01:16:54.848
♪♪

01:16:56.216 --> 01:16:57.551
-And he woke up
and called for Gail.

01:16:57.618 --> 01:16:58.919
And I said, "It's Emmett."

01:16:58.986 --> 01:17:00.687
And he said,
"Oh, dear Emmett."

01:17:00.754 --> 01:17:02.990
And then as I was drifting
back off to sleep,

01:17:03.056 --> 01:17:06.226
he started singing
this Russian lullaby.

01:17:06.293 --> 01:17:08.028
It was almost like a dream.

01:17:08.061 --> 01:17:14.835
♪♪

01:17:14.902 --> 01:17:17.437
And then he said,
"I started from nothing

01:17:17.504 --> 01:17:18.772
and built a theater
from nothing,

01:17:18.839 --> 01:17:20.574
and it was very fine.

01:17:20.641 --> 01:17:22.543
And then I married sweet Gail.

01:17:22.609 --> 01:17:24.811
And then my beautiful son
Tony got AIDS,

01:17:24.878 --> 01:17:26.647
and then he died,

01:17:26.713 --> 01:17:30.517
and then I got sick and I died."

01:17:30.584 --> 01:17:32.152
And I said,
"Well, Joe, you're not dead.

01:17:32.219 --> 01:17:33.754
You're still here."

01:17:33.820 --> 01:17:35.622
And he said, "I am?

01:17:35.689 --> 01:17:37.291
What the hell are you guys
doing around here?

01:17:37.357 --> 01:17:40.093
Can't you see I'm trying to die?
What's the problem?"

01:17:40.127 --> 01:17:47.134
♪♪

01:17:48.068 --> 01:17:55.075
♪♪

01:17:56.009 --> 01:17:57.544
[ Birds chirping ]

01:17:57.611 --> 01:17:59.580
♪♪

01:17:59.646 --> 01:18:02.850
-Joe was extremely weak
and debilitated then,

01:18:02.916 --> 01:18:05.152
and there were times
when he couldn't walk,

01:18:05.219 --> 01:18:07.354
but he would have remissions.

01:18:09.156 --> 01:18:12.626
And so he made a sudden decision

01:18:12.693 --> 01:18:15.162
to go there one evening.

01:18:15.229 --> 01:18:16.730
I could hardly believe it.

01:18:16.797 --> 01:18:18.265
I can't tell you
the kind of effort that was

01:18:18.332 --> 01:18:20.400
because he was
in a great deal of pain.

01:18:22.035 --> 01:18:25.072
-It was incredible
to drive into the park,

01:18:25.138 --> 01:18:26.940
into the Delacorte Theater.

01:18:27.007 --> 01:18:28.942
They were rehearsing "Othello,"

01:18:29.009 --> 01:18:32.212
with Chris Walken
and Raul Julia.

01:18:32.279 --> 01:18:35.716
And when he came
into the theater,

01:18:35.782 --> 01:18:38.185
it was -- it was magical.

01:18:38.218 --> 01:18:39.953
They sat backstage

01:18:40.020 --> 01:18:41.421
on these picnic tables

01:18:41.488 --> 01:18:44.358
and talked to each other.

01:18:44.424 --> 01:18:47.194
It was like a king
and his subjects.

01:18:47.261 --> 01:18:50.063
♪♪

01:18:50.130 --> 01:18:54.201
-The beginning of the show
often happened in the daylight.

01:18:54.268 --> 01:18:56.670
And I came on
and I did my scene,

01:18:56.703 --> 01:19:01.341
and I'm talking right to Joe,

01:19:01.408 --> 01:19:02.843
and he was smiling at me.

01:19:02.910 --> 01:19:03.877
And I went off.

01:19:03.944 --> 01:19:06.580
And when I came back,
it was dark.

01:19:06.647 --> 01:19:08.182
Hm.

01:19:10.083 --> 01:19:12.119
The last time I saw him.

01:19:14.721 --> 01:19:19.993
-♪ They used to tell me
I was building a dream ♪

01:19:20.060 --> 01:19:21.762
♪♪

01:19:21.828 --> 01:19:26.466
♪ With peace and glory ahead ♪

01:19:26.533 --> 01:19:32.739
♪ Why should I be
standing in line ♪

01:19:34.575 --> 01:19:40.347
♪ Just waiting for bread? ♪

01:19:40.414 --> 01:19:43.584
♪♪

01:19:43.650 --> 01:19:47.588
♪ Once I built a railroad ♪

01:19:47.654 --> 01:19:51.258
♪ I made it run ♪

01:19:51.325 --> 01:19:55.562
♪ Made it race against time ♪

01:19:55.629 --> 01:19:57.464
♪♪

01:19:57.531 --> 01:20:01.668
♪ Once I built a railroad ♪

01:20:01.735 --> 01:20:04.538
♪ Now it's done ♪

01:20:04.605 --> 01:20:08.742
♪ Brother,
can you spare a dime? ♪

01:20:08.809 --> 01:20:11.778
♪♪

01:20:11.845 --> 01:20:15.616
♪ Once I built a tower ♪

01:20:15.682 --> 01:20:19.019
♪ To the sun ♪

01:20:19.086 --> 01:20:23.290
♪ Brick and rivet and lime ♪

01:20:23.357 --> 01:20:25.826
♪♪

01:20:25.893 --> 01:20:29.563
♪ Once I built a tower ♪

01:20:29.630 --> 01:20:32.366
♪ Now it's done ♪

01:20:32.432 --> 01:20:36.570
♪ Brother,
can you spare a dime? ♪

01:20:39.173 --> 01:20:43.076
♪ Once in khaki suits ♪

01:20:43.110 --> 01:20:46.647
♪ Gee, we looked swell ♪

01:20:46.680 --> 01:20:50.184
♪ Full of that yankee Doodle De Dum ♪

01:20:53.353 --> 01:21:00.027
♪ Half a million boots went
slogging through hell ♪

01:21:00.060 --> 01:21:06.500
♪ And I was the kid with the drum ♪

01:21:06.533 --> 01:21:11.538
♪ Say don't you remember ♪

01:21:11.572 --> 01:21:15.375
♪ They called me Al ♪

01:21:15.409 --> 01:21:21.849
♪ It was Al all the time ♪

01:21:21.882 --> 01:21:28.889
♪ Say don't you remember, I'm your pal ♪

01:21:28.922 --> 01:21:33.060
♪ Buddy, can you spare a dime? ♪

01:21:35.462 --> 01:21:39.733
♪ Once in khaki suits ♪

01:21:39.766 --> 01:21:42.769
♪ Gee, we looked swell ♪

01:21:42.803 --> 01:21:48.976
♪ Full of that yankee Doodle De Dum ♪

01:21:50.010 --> 01:21:56.283
♪ Half a million boots went
slogging through hell ♪

01:21:56.316 --> 01:22:01.955
♪ And I was the kid with the drum ♪

01:22:01.989 --> 01:22:06.760
♪ Say don't you remember ♪

01:22:06.793 --> 01:22:10.430
♪ They called me Al ♪

01:22:10.464 --> 01:22:16.570
♪ It was Al all the time ♪

01:22:16.603 --> 01:22:17.437
♪ Say don't you remember ♪

01:22:20.307 --> 01:22:25.078
♪ I'm your pal ♪

01:22:25.112 --> 01:22:28.582
♪ Buddy can you spare ♪

01:22:28.615 --> 01:22:35.622
♪ A dime? ♪

01:22:41.795 --> 01:22:48.802
♪♪

01:23:17.998 --> 01:23:25.005
♪♪